[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
”why should the offense be deprived from advancing at will? “

They are not! They can advance all they want. They are deprived of stopping, dancing around, taunting the pitcher, playing games. The LBR is in effect as soon as they stop and they must move directly to a base.

If F1 fields a batted ball and chooses not to make any further play, then that’s the end of it and the LBR will eventually come into effect. That is the identical action to when a fielder chooses not to make any further play and throws the ball to the pitcher in the circle. That is the identical action to when the catcher chooses not to make any further play and throws the ball to the pitcher in the circle. At that time the defense has chosen to end the play and the LBR is now available to end the taunting and game playing of the runners.

It is such a simple concept and I fail to understand why so many have a problem with the LBR.

You are once again helping me make my point. It is obvious the pitcher gains an advantage the rest of the defense does not enjoy. Hence, the offense must play a different game if the pitcher fields the ball in the circle and that just isn't right.

This is what makes the FP game boring. The defense can control a runner by just throwing the ball to the pitcher in the circle as opposed to being forced to play on the runner.

1. In FP the ball is always live
2. The defense determines when to end playing on runner
3. The LBR then forces the runners to a base so that the next play (a pitch) can begin.

In SP the umpire arbitrarily kills the ball and forces all runners to a base in preparation of the next play. In FP the ball stays live and it is the choice of the defense to end the play.

Just not true. The umpire does not "arbitrarily" kill a play. The play ends and the ball becomes dead. And again, why should the defense have the advantage of forcing a play to end without engaging the runner?

” has been stated here repeatedly by all parties, nothing is supposed to happen between plays. So what is the big deal, other than the inflated FP egos, if we just kill the ball between plays.”

It is not inflated egos, Mike. There is a basic conceptual difference between the FP and SP games that you don’t seem to be able to comprehend.

SP, as Tom noted previously, is a “start ‘n stop” game. Ball is live when pitched, and dead at the end of the pitch. If the ball is hit, then the deadball point is extended to when the ball is secure in the infield and no player is attempting a play anymore. Then you reset – send runners to a base, get the batter ready, and start the next play with a pitch. Start, stop. Start, stop, Start, stop until you finally reach the end of the game. Note also that runs are scored by hitting the ball. Pitch, hit, get on base – kill play. Pitch, hit the ball, score – kill play.

And here I was under the impression you knew something about the SP game. The ball does not become dead at the end of a pitch. Runners are allowed to steal, they may be picked off by the catcher and the get a base if the pitch leaves playable territory.

In FP the ball is always in play (other than obvious exceptions such as foul ball, times out, etc.) You don’t call time when a runner is off the base. Because of that, FP added the LBR to force runners back to a base and quit taunting the defense.

So all that means is that the umpire just doesn't call time. Have the umpire call time and it has the same affect on the game.

Note also that runs are ‘manufactured’ in FP. Many runs are scored without the benefit of a hit. As I said before, start killing the ball all the time, and you kill the game.

That is pure rubbish. If the runners cannot advance during this period, how can killing the ball affect the game?

In normal SP the ball can become dead when runners are off the base. When you added stealing to SP you had to keep the ball live at the end of a pitch. Now you kill it when the pitcher has it, AND the runner is stopped. Wow – there is that word “stop!” Lifted from the FP LBR? Instead of a circle, you have “vicinity.” Lifted from the FP LBR? But if a “play” is being made on a runner, you don’t kill the ball. Lifted from the FP LBR?

Actually, it is not vicinity, it is anywhere in the infield. And it is not when the runner is stopped, but when all further play is obviously finished. SP had stealing about five years before they tried to tighten the rule. After less than a year, it was discovered that the crap they added (what you note above) just isn't worth the effort and screws the game up more than help it. Just as I propose it would help the FP game.

So why didn’t you just bring the LBR over to SP? BECAUSE SP is based on killing the play. So you have your version of the LBR modified to fit the SP game. When the runner is off the base after a pitch, and the pitcher has the ball in the vicinity of the plate, and the runner has stopped – kill the play and send the runner back to the base.

Under the LBR in FP we don’t kill the play, we allow the runners to return. If they don’t, we call them out.

Different games, different philosophies. Legitimately - different rules.

SP has created a potential future morass of problems by adding stealing to its rules. Their initial rules were adopted from the FP LBR and modified to fit the SP concept. As runners and defenders get to know the new game they will stretch the rules, and require new interpretations, and eventually tweaking of the rules to stay ahead of the players.

FP has already been down this road; we have tweaked and modified our LBR. It is fine – let’s leave it alone while SP figures out it’s problems.

WMB

Well, WMB, I think you have proven my point. It is obvious that you haven't been paying attention to the SP game and are so submersed in the FP game, you cannot see the trees from the forest. The game is presently boring. So boring I know baseball umpires (and they work a boring game) which get bored working FP softball. You claim that SP is a start and stop game. As far as I am concerned, SP is the epitome of an action sport. On any given pitch, the batter can hit the ball to any field in any manner. Those who participate in this "old, beer-bellied player" sport advance the longer bases in a much quicker fashion and challenge the defense to play the game.

Yes there are some runners who choose to attempt to play games by standing still for a period of time and that is when the umpire uses the rules to control the game and move it along. And that means that the umpire must be ready to move on every pitch for every play and just a little bit more than your standard FP game.

Let me see, more hits, more runs and more players get to bat in two-thirds the time it takes to play a FP game. Wow, that a real tough decision....but I think I prefer the SP game.

Once again, I will stand on my original statement.