Thu Nov 11, 2004, 12:03am
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Official Forum Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
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Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
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Originally posted by BushRef
We discussed this at our meeting last night and someone seemed to think that after A has made the basket and as soon as B has grabbed the ball, it is too late for A to call a timeout, even BEFORE B has stepped out of bounds.
Thoughts?
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Someone is right.
You can't grant a TO when the other team has the ball or it's at it's their disposal- even before they step OOB.
Casebook play 6.1.2SitB(a) has a good explanation.
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JR:
Your statement is partially correct and partially incorrect.
There have been other threads concerning when the ball becomes at the disposal of the thrower after a goal is scored. NFHS R5-S8-A3b and NCAA R5-S9-A4 and A5 are the governing references with regard to requesting a timeout.
I agree with you that after Team A scored and Team B does not make an effort to pick-up the ball to take it out-of-bounds to attempt a throw-in the covering official can declare the ball at the disposal of Team B by starting a five second count; once the official starts his five second count if Team A requests a timeout, its request cannot be granted. Why? The ball becomes live when it is at the disposal of the team allowed to make the throw-in. If a player from Team B picks up the ball immediately after Team A scores and then immediately takes the ball out-of-bounds to attempt a throw-in, the ball does not become live until the Team B player is completely out-of-bounds; at that point the ball becomes live and the ball is at the disposal of Team B for the throw-in. That means the ball is dead until the ball is at the disposal of Team B and while the ball is dead any team can request a timeout and the timeout request should be granted.
MTD, Sr.
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6.1.2 situation B disagrees with that interpretation. That case play clearly states that the ball may be deemed at the disposal whether the throwing team is inbounds or out. '
The comment after the case play even talks about a ball near the end line being availiable to a player, that the count can begin.
Further the case play for 5-8-3 disagrees with you too.
5.8.3 situation D.
[Edited by blindzebra on Nov 10th, 2004 at 11:37 PM]
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BZ:
From my origianl post I said:
"If a player from Team B picks up the ball immediately after Team A scores and then immediately takes the ball out-of-bounds to attempt a throw-in, the ball does not become live until the Team B player is completely out-of-bounds; at that point the ball becomes live and the ball is at the disposal of Team B for the throw-in."
In this situation, when would you start your five second count, when B1 first takes possession of the ball while still inbounds after Team A's score, or when B1 is completely out-of-bounds? Please explain your decision? Thank you in advance.
MTD, Sr.
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The count begins when it is at the disposal, so yes BEFORE they are OOBs.
Both case plays I cited say as much. One goes as far as to say if the throwing team can pick up the ball but delays, the official may begin the count BEFORE they secure the ball.
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Your absolutely correct of B1 delays, but in my situation B1 does not delay, and therefore the ball is not at the disposal of Team B for the purposes of making a throw-in until B1 is completely out-of-bounds. In my situation you do not start your five second count until B1 is completely out-of-bounds, at the time the ball becomes live and is at the disposal of Team B, and the official can start a five second count. Therefore, until the ball becomes live Team A can request a timeout and Team A's request should be granted.
MTD, Sr.
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That's NOT what the case book say, Mark.
It talks about when they secure the ball or if it is availiable for them to secure it, but there is not one mention of waiting until they are OOB.
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