Quote:
Originally posted by rex
Thank you Warren!
Ya done brought it all together for me and ya dont know what ya did.
Its not 7.10. You said ending play. Its rule 4.09(b).
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Sorry, Rex, but this one doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. There are lots of good reasons in Carl's post, but I've got another one for you.
OBR 4.09 Penalty strictly mentions "
...with 2 outs..." when talking about requiring the batter-runner to advance or be called out. Problem here is we already have
3 outs, so the passage is not applicable, even if it weren't strictly dealing ONLY with an awarded 1st base.
What the J/R, and now the PBUC, has declared is that there can be
4 outs in any half inning, with the last out being made a "
substitute" 3rd out if it is advantageous to the defense. While I can accept that for "apparent" 4th outs on appeal, where the offense has committed a base running infraction that SHOULD taint their run, I find it very hard to swallow on ACTUAL 4th outs without appeal where the offense has done everything required by the rules. There has NEVER been a LEGAL REQUIREMENT for bases to be run AFTER a legitimate 3rd out had been made, EXCEPT as the result of actions that occurred BEFORE the 3rd out such as an awarded base - at least not until now!
For me, there is just no way around OBR 5.07 without forever changing the way the game has always been played. The arrangement to have only THREE outs in a half inning dates back to the 15th rule of the original 1845 Knickerbocker rules, "
15TH. Three hands out, all out." (my emphasis) Allowing any defensive team an extra (4th) out for the sole purpose of cancelling an otherwise legitimately scored run, made on a simple fielder's choice time play, is tipping the balance way too far for mine and changing a fundamental part of the game!
Bad J/R. Bad PBUC. Bad, BAD PBUC. 
Cheers,
[Edited by Warren Willson on Mar 28th, 2001 at 12:55 AM]