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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
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Originally posted by Mark Dexter
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1) So a player pushes the ball toward the ground, steps on the OOB line, and then moves her hand away so the ball doesn't come back up into her hand. Do you not consider this OOB?
2)I say it has to be OOB - a player can't violate and then do something to change the situation to a legal play. [/B]
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1) Nope. I agree with Juulie.
2)Yabut, has the player violated if the player is no longer the dribbler? The question is when does a dribbler cease to be a dribbler. It's obvious from the wording of R9-3NOTE that this violation only pertains to a dribbler. [/B][/QUOTE]
I think the problem is that we have to define a dribble by the end of the dribble. 4-15-4 a-d are rather obvious, if the dribbler steps OOB, comes back in, and does any of those, you know that they were dribbling when they went OOB. 4-15-4(e) states the dribble ends when the ball becomes dead - in that case, they are dribbling until you blow them OOB.
The only possibilities here would be in 4-15-5 and 6d, the interrupted dribble rule. If the player is dribbling, each push towards the ground does not meet the first requirement - deflecting off of the dribbler. If you have an actual deflection, then the player steps OOB, then you have no violation. The other option is if the ball "momentarily gets away from the dribbler," and perhaps that's the crux of the argument. I would say that (a) pulling the hand away does not mean the ball momentarily gets away from the dribbler, and (b) even if the ball does get away from the dribbler (or we say that pulling the hand away equals that), the ball would have to 'get away'
and be recognized before the player steps on the OOB line.
The dribble is either in effect or has stopped based on its status at the instant the player makes contact out of bounds. You can't wait and see what the player does afterwards to end/continue the dribble.