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Originally posted by Blue37
The play was a QB sneak right up the gut. Does the call belong to the L or the LJ? In my scenario, both were certain of what they saw. Logic tell us that one of them saw it incorrectly, but neither were willing to back down and change their own call.
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The call belongs to both of them. Usually only one official is going to get a good look at the play. They should pinch, and then make a decision based on where they see the ball or where they can tell the play was stopped at. There is not hurry to make a call here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue37
Maybe my confusion is that I do not understand the definition of "decision" and "overrule".
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A decision is what you are going to say happen on the play. To overrule someone is to see something that your partner did and then tell him he was wrong and then change the call. I know we have beat that dead horse, but you cannot do that. If you do you that you might find that official not working very long. You are a team. The officials should always coordinate signals or calls in those specific situations. I am a Referee on my crew. When my partners call a foul, all they do is report to me. I cannot tell them they are wrong or that they should not have thrown the flag. I can help them make a final decision by asking appropriate questions. I do need to know what, who and when, but it is up to them to tell me. I cannot do that for them. That is really the case on plays that I am covering my own responsibility.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue37
Until your post, I thought the L made a decision when he signaled TD, and I thought the LJ made a decision when he signaled no TD.
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They both did, but you cannot have a TD and the ball down short of the goal line. You have to come to a final decision and decide what actually took place.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue37
If, as you assert, the decision is not made until the call is final, then there is never an overrule.
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That is what I am saying.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue37
If a flag is thrown for a clip, but the Referee, with no discussion, tells the official to put his flag back in his pocket and the game goes on without a penalty being assessed, that is not an "overrule" as it occurred before the final "decision" was made.
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I would hope that the Referee is saying to the officials why that flag should be picked up. Because I can assume that the Referee and the calling official has a different angle and it is very possible that they both did not see the play the same way. The Referee does not have the right to just tell the calling official to pick up that flag. The Referee's role is to signal all fouls and explain actions for the crew when they take place. If we are talking about a game at the D1 level for example, the Referee and the calling official would get a downgrade if they pick up the flag and they were wrong. So the Referee better be sure he has some information that can change the call and the calling official better be sure he is right.
To summarize your play. In your example the H and HL cannot have it both ways. We have to make a decision one way or another. It is very likely someone will get criticized for making a call that they did not see. So what you have to do is have whoever's side the ball was on or decide who had a better look at the play. But that is why you hear the term, “SEE LEATHER" so often. If you do not see the ball, you should never blow your whistle on tackles and TD plays. That is a perfect recipe for an inadvertent whistle or disaster.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue37
If we had all been working from these definitions, the discussion whould have ended long ago.
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I do not think so. You have people that will feel it is their God given right to change calls regardless of the procedure they use. I just know that if you want to get the call right that is a noble ideal, but you better be 120% sure that you are changing a call that is right. Bad judgment does not just reside with the initial play. You can use bad judgment in changing the call as well.
Peace