[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by Gee
Carter,

I also said I would leave this alone but since you continue in your efforts to prove me wrong I find it necessary to reply. (Small grin.)

Yeah, we probably both need to get a life.

I also have J/R but mine is the original editiion and not the new one that you have.

I tried to match up your section with mine and I think I found it in "Appeal of a Failure to Touch a Base".

I think you are looking at the same section.
FWIW, the text is:
A runner is vulnerable to appeal if
(1) he does not touch a base when advancing (or returning)(within a body length) the final time. [7.02][7.04d][7.05i][7.10b]

No 7.10d, no "reaching the advance base" mentioned.

My edition gives three examples and on the far right they refer to four OBR rules of which one of them is 7.10(b.

All of the examples clearly state that the runner, who was appealed, had touched his advance base and an appeal is applicable under 7.10(b) OR (d)ext.

If I have the wrong section, concerning the above, please let me know as I would be surprised if the book used 7.10(b) when the appealed runner failed to touch his advance base.

Well, none of the examples given in the '04 ed. cite a rule by number, and none really addresses the "advance base" issue: the only one where it occurs is a classic "last time by" sitch, not really helpful on this question.

The point I posted earlier was that J/R'04 cites 7.10b, not d for missed base, and never mentions any req. that runner reach or pass the advance base [in either direction].

As you read further into this section you will find that they use a 'relaxed' and 'unrelaxed action' concept concerning 7.10(d) and the immediate area.

The only places in this area I can find 7.10d cited are subsections on "Constitution of an Appeal", and "Retouch Appeals", in which d is referenced for the principle [from the cmt/casebook] that an appeal must be obvious and intentional.

The discussion of "relaxed" action is instructive, I think:
"In relaxed action, the runner (whose action is being appealed) is inactive; he is standing on another base, or is well removed from the base at which the appeal is being made. In unrelaxed action the runner ... is trying to scramble to a base ...

Sounds like reaching the advance base is one possibility, but so is appealing a runner most of the way but not yet to the advance base, providing he's not trying to get back.

You also must remember that this book is authoritative opinion and not Official as it is basically a teaching manual and a great resource. G.

Absolutely, but it is a darn sight nearer Gospel than your or my opinion.

As for our "disagreement", I'm not really worried about which of us is "right": it still looks like the same spud to me. As I posted elsewhere, I'm like a kid w/ a new toy.

The J/R does make it easier to noodle out screwy situations, as much because it makes it easier to find ALL the relevent rules. Obviously, there is a format difference, and maybe also some differences in content, between the '04 and the original edition [from your description]: not having used the eariler, I would not be able to say if the current version is an improvement.

--Carter