[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


Okay, and your point is...what??? No one has ever suggested that we just over rule guys without seeing the play! But, if I see something and and pertner(s) made the wrong call in my estimation, there will be time to get it right.

OK, what if they disagree with you? What if they know they saw the entire play? What if the rules do not allow a change to be made? You are still changing the call?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The coaches and players will surely delay because of the bad call and that will allow me the opportunity to ask my partner what he saw and present what I saw. Since my partners have evolved to a point where they recognize I wouldn't be trying to show them up, they usually acquiesce. We would rather get the call right and earn the respect of the contestants than look good. Apparently you would rather let your partner hang when you see him miss a call.

Windy, you really need to read all the responses. In football there are many situations that I can and have provided information. But that is all it is, providing information. And I can provide information in football, but not see the entire play at all. As a Referee there are several situations where I can ask questions, but it is up to the calling official to decide in the end. As it relates to basketball, I can only provide information, the calling official (foul calls) have to make the final decisions. Even on an out of bounds call, the calling officials mechanically and logically have to make the final call. There is a reason they made, it is not my job to tell them they messed up.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The first sentence tells us all about your talent. The second reinforces it and the last confirms it. Every training clinic that I've ever attended or taught at has video taped replays for discussion. Even the greenest rookie will walk away knowing the error after we look at it.

It does? So a catch on the other side of the field, I am supposed to know if the receiver was out of bounds? I am supposed to know if a low pass in the opposite side zone was caught? Windy, football and basketball is not baseball. Much of our job is to watch off-ball or things behind the play. If I am watching the ball all the time, I will miss illegal blocks, cheap shots, Roughing penalties, and screens and off-ball fouls in basketball. Baseball most of the time there is one ball and nothing can happen without knowledge of the ball. Most of the time an umpire needs to know where the ball is to make a decision. Not the case in football and basketball. Not at all the case.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Again, what is your point??? No one has ever said that every play is reviewable. Are you off your medication again?

My point is that anyone that says that I should know if my partner made a bad call on a football board, it is very clear you have no understanding of the mechanics, procedures and rules of football. Anyone reading your post can see that.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
So, you have two officials making opposite calls and neither call is right or wrong...why are they on the field?

Well right and wrong might not be determined until you see video tape. In football and basketball we get a lot of video tapes on games. If we have a call or a questionable situation, we see the tape. In both basketball and football we have a common saying, "make calls for the video tape." Maybe in your experience you have worked baseball games where video tape is common. But I have cannot serious remember a time a HS varsity or college games were video taped in baseball. It is rare that I work any basketball or football game at the HS or college level. Especially in football.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Hahahahahahahahahahah! Personalities??? This is a basic philosophical difference. Your pride is blinding you to your responsibility. If you see a partner make an obviously bad call and do nothing to correct it, you are as bad.

Who said anything about not correcting a call? I have never said I would not provide information. Reading is a skill. But I also have responsibilities and it is not my job to make sure all my partner's calls are correct. Maybe that is something you do, but not me. I want you to tell me the last time you changed a pitch that you partner behind the plate made? Are you going to claim to us that you have never seen a pitch you felt was all over the plate and you did not change it? Why not change those obvious bad calls? It is an obvious and bad right? You should be able to change it right?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
No...I tell them what they should do. You have told all of us that you won't wok to get the call right.

"Wok to get the call right?" What does that mean? I will give information, but I have stated that 1000 times already.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
My D-1 baseball crews work as a team, too. We don't let our partners kick calls - we pussh everyone to be better and support each other on and off the field. But, if one of them blows something and one of us has input to correct it, we do. We may look goofy for a little while, but we have been at it for over a dozen years and have our schedules filled for 2005.

Again, give me an example of how you do this in football? Baseball is not relevant to this discussion really. On my football crews and the basketball officials I work with we do the exact same thing. But there are things that happen we cannot help each other on. I know I do not see all penalties in football, I just make sure based on the information I am given to administer it correctly. If one person messes up, we all mess up. But that does not mean the call was correct or that the holding was actually there. It means that we enforce it from the proper spot and mark off the proper yardage and play from the proper down. But I cannot tell my partner "you messed up that call" when I or others did not see it. And that is not "overruling" that is making sure we apply the rule properly. That is not telling my partner that his "judgment" is flawed. There is a difference.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
As usual, you read what you want. Try going back over the last few posts and read them again. I beleive that most of them reference times when it was imperative to get the call right by overruling a call.

There is a difference between "over ruling" a call and "changing" a call. And in the rules of football do not allow another official to "over rule" anyone.

Peace