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Old Mon Mar 12, 2001, 12:14am
Warren Willson Warren Willson is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
No problem...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Cunningham
Thanks again, Warren, for your informative reply on the umpire's nightmare. I meant R1 instead of B1, a typo error.
But as for the conditon of R1 at the time of the missed base, he would have been awarded 2nd as a result of the obstruction; so it still seems odd to refer to the appealed missed base as a force out.
But, hey, I don't want to be argumenative. And, you all, probabably have years and years of experience beyond me. So I will chaulk it up as a learning experience in the fine art of umpire judgement wording! and from now on refer to a missed base appeal on a forced runner as a forced out.
As for your example of a runner on 3rd in this play, I can imagine a bench clearing freeforall if I declared his run null on the 3rd out being a force out instead of a timing play! Particularly, because of the obstruction on R1.
It is incredible to me that an umpire's ruling can become so complex! Thanks again for your response
Jim, it's not being "argumentative" if you still have honest doubts about the point being made. No problem in expressing those doubts in a positive and constructive way.

It may help if you think of the reason the force out applies is because this was a base running error by R1. Even though he would be awarded 2nd base on obstruction, that doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to touch all bases properly in taking his award. There is an example of this philosophy in OBR 7.10(b) Play (b), showing that despite an award of bases, the obligation is on the runner to touch each base awarded properly. Further evidence can be found in the Casebook Comments following OBR 7.05(i).

It might also help if you note the difference between "reaching" a base and "touching" a base. Under OBR 7.06(b) a runner who "advances beyond" the base to which he would have been entitled does so at the risk of being tagged out. That does not require the base be touched. Further, the runner is deemed to have touched any missed bases until such time as there is an appeal. Therefore, in the case in point the runner is in jeopardy because he proceeded beyond his protected base AND his base running error was NOT the result of being obstructed but was instead his own error.

Bottom line, Jim, is that sometimes baseball CAN be this complex, but all we need do to sort it out is to work through things in order. I hope this helps. If you still have any questions, pleased don't hesitate to email me at [email protected] and I'll be glad to help if I can.

Cheers,
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