Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
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B1 grabs A1 from behind, foul. A1 says," Get off me!" and throws his elbow back and up at B1's head, but misses. Is that not fighting under the definition of attempting to strike an opponent? For me I can't see how that is different than A1 throwing a punch.
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The difference, imo, is the can of worms that you just opened up. Yeah, you could probably technically classify that act as a "fight" under the language of R4-18-1. If you do want to classify that as a "fight" however, that act now becomes an automatic flagrant foul plus an ejection. Now, if someone else throws an elbow that doesn't hit anyone later on in the game, it's pretty much guaranteed that you're gonna have a coach jumping up and down, pointing his finger, and hollering "FIGHT" at you. Especially if that coach's player was the one that you threw out for "fighting" earlier. Imo, you just painted yourself into a corner when it comes to how the call could be classified. I don't care what explanation you come up with trying to explain why this elbow is a violation and not a "fight", but the last one really was a "fight", you aren't gonna convince that coach. It's become a simple matter of "consistency" to them. However, if you just use R4-19-4 or R4-19-5 instead, you can then judge each separate act as to whether it was flagrant or not, without having to get into a "must eject" mode. [/B]
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Why should we care what the coach is going to say later. If we deem the act as a fight, i.e. the player meant to strike the player, than I'm penalizing the act based on the act. I'm not taking the easy way out, just to cover my butt later, in case another player swings their elbows.
If you deem it as flagrant under 4-19-4 you still eject them, so what is the difference? You will still have the same problem with the coach later on if another player swings their elbows. [/B][/QUOTE]The difference is that I don't HAVE to deem it flagrant. You do if you call it a fight. I can judge each elbow on it's merits, and I'm not gonna be second-guessed on every missed elbow from then on. And that's certainly not taking the easy way out either. If I think that the act was flagrant, then it's buh-bye. But I'm not painting myself into a corner on every run-of-the-mill missed elbow violation. Once you call a missed elbow "fighting" however, the coach is gonna want EVERY missed elbow called the same way.
Obviously, you disagree. We'll just have to leave it that way.