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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
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Originally posted by blindzebra
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Originally posted by Dan_ref
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Originally posted by blindzebra
How about the other play I brought up?
A1 dribbles up the side with B1, with LGP and directly in their path, giving ground. A1 crosses the division line, a 5 second count begins. You'd have this count, right?
A1 then changes direction and moves toward the middle of the court at the top of the key. B1 slides with A1 on a parallel diagonal path and is within 6 feet. Are you continuing your count?
This is important because technically B1 is not in A1's path, unless path is also concidered between A1 and their basket, or path has no bearing on closely guarded.
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You have obviously not been paying attention. Let's try one more time:
1. the word PATH is critical to the rule, both fed & ncaa
2. PATH is not defined in the rules
3. So we cannot assume it is used as a term of art
4. Which you obviously do by continually throwing out "yeah but whatabout" plays as opposed to providing solid rule backup for your position.
5. None of which have any bearing on how the rule is worded.
I can't think of any more direct way of saying this to you. If you find it insulting...well...you'll probably get over it eventually. This has been beaten to death more than any living or nonliving thing deserves to be.
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Where is your rule support?
Where is the casebook play that has your play as an example?
4-10 does not have PATH in the definition, it has GUARDED.
4-23 talks about legally guarding.
Path is how you ESTABLISH it, but show me where it says it is only on a dribbler and where it says you lose it, if A1 changes direction. You can't, because it does not.
You don't want to answer my what if question, because it points out the flaw in your intrepretation of closely guarded.
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Try casebook play 10.6.1SitA. It says that the principles described in there apply equally to guarding an opponent with or without the ball. It says a guarding position basically means facing and being in the path of an opponent. The only difference between that "guarding position" and a "closely guarding position" is that to stay in a "closely guarded position", you must constantly remain within 6 feet of the offensive player. While doing so, there is no provision that either player must remain facing each other- as per Rule 4-23-3(a).
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Yet another confusing section of the book. The case play you gave seems to ignore time and distance when guarding a moving player without the ball, i.e. not more than two strides. It also does not say what is consider losing the path.
Is it losing the path if you are no longer directly in front of A1 in the direction A1 is facing/moving?
Have you lost it if you are moving on a parallel path?
What effect does A1's orientation have on remaining in the path?
The closest thing I've found is 9.10.1 Situation C.