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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
The pitcher did not throw. The action was not continuous. The play didn't throw Childress (and civilized people without a chip on their shoulder call him "Carl" ).....
......A good discussion, except the pitcher threw a dead ball into center field. A valid discussion if the pitcher had balked and thrown it away without pausing/feinting.
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First of all, Rich, I prefer to call him Carl (as I usually did) and will do so as he has now referred to me as Steve. He was first to choose to refer through use of last name only, and, as stated in past, it is my intent to respond to Carl in same manner he chooses to address me.
Secondly, I agree that F1 threw a dead ball into center if and only if an umpire called time. If not, it remains a live ball. It would have been nice if the author of the situation were to have typed "and the ump called time" during the "pause" the pitcher was taking before throwing into center. (grin) No pause, no time called.
Now, the question is whether time should be called. As you described, Rich, F1 turned and "almost immediately" turned and threw to center. Can you understand how some might interpret your statement as without a pause (as J/R would interpret as continuous)? Trick questions are not bad as long as they trick you on the situation, not the vagueness of the wording. Vagueness in the description of the situation is merely playing games---and, when purposely made vague, a relative waste of time to those here to discuss umpiring.
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Jim Porter (quoted):
NAPBL 6.7: "The question arises as to when the umpire is to call "Time" to kill the ball after calling a balk. The following cases should help explain when play is considered "stopped'~ and at what moment the umpire should call "Time" following the call of balk:
1. If the pitcher balks and does not throw the ball, call 'That's a balk; time' and enforce the balk."
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Jim, you left out the wording of NAPBL 6.7 that says:
"The question arises as to when an umpire is to call "Time" to kill the ball after calling a balk. The following cases should help explain when a play is considered "stopped" and at what moment the umpire should call "Time" following the call of balk>"
Really, Jim, what question arises when in the situation provided you have a runner advancing BEFORE the balk was committed. If this were any other play would you consider this play as one in progress or stopped? The example prvided (in case you are in question) is good. Why would you be in question, however, if a runner is still advancing" I don't understand. The rule says don't call time until "all play has ceased". I know what that means (without question) and do not have to rely on on authoritative opinion to help me in that determination. I know that if a runner is progressing and he started during a live ball, it is a play that has not yet ceased. Therefore, I do not yet call time. If you have question if a play is occurring, you should rely upon your example case to "help explain".
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress
It's apparent we're going to A2D on this play. On the "dead ball balk" side are Szalapski, Benham, Porter, Willson, Childress, Jenkins, Booth, Evans, and Jaksa/Roder. On the "keep playing" side is Steve. That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it should cause you to do some rethinking. Remember the old saying from Satchel Paige: "If it's you against the world, bet the world."
If it weren't for people willing to disagree, like Adams, Hancock, Franklin, Jefferson, and Washington we might all be sounding a lot more like Warren right now. (banish the thought---grin) I may be independent in thinking at times and certainly not afraid to discuss (and admit when proven wrong), but I am not wrong for logically disagreeing or even questioning when I do not understanding.
I agree with Carl. As I said before, this is a waste of time since it's so nit picky. A good official can sell it either way-------just as the rules, interpretations, opinions can obviously be taken either way.
Just trying to prove a point,
(and BTW, the offense is part of the balk rule)
Steve
Member
EWS
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