Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Yes, I think. Your post doesn''t say whether FT's were shot or not. There are no free throws shot in a double technical foul, just the AP. Rule 4-19-7(b) is the rules reference.
|
JR, isn't this a false double?
The first T caused a dead ball, THEN you had a second T for taunting. I'm leaning toward shooting them in the order they occured. They are two seperate acts.
|
BZ, I honestly can't say that I think that you're wrong. Or that you're right either.  We've gone around several times on this one before, if I remember right.
R4-19-7 just specifies that double fouls have to occur at "approximately the same time". There's no mention of live ball/dead ball anywhere in the description. Usually on any double foul, including the most common one in post play, you don't really have 2 exactly simultaneous fouls occurring. One will usually occur before the other, followed by retaliation. One of the characteristics of double personals and double technicals is that they also both specify that two opponents(iow the 2 opposing players involved in that particular play) must commit them. A false double foul(R4-19-8) is different in that it doesn't have to be opponents(it can be any member of either team), and that there must be an attribute of a double foul missing. Usually that attribute happens to be either the "occuring at approximately the same time" part or the "opponent vs. team member" part.
I think that you can make a good argument for either call. The reason that I like the double technical foul in cases like this is that neither team usually comes out of it with an advantage. In the play above, A1 lost his cool and got the deserved T, but did he goad B1 into responding and getting consequently T'd up also? If you think that happened, then a false double is gonna give team A an advantage in that they will be getting a possession without using the arrow. I think that it's the same philosophy as calling double fouls in the post. If you did call a personal foul followed by an almost-at-exactly-the-same-time retaliation T, then someone is getting an extra advantage out of the false double foul call.
[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 6th, 2004 at 04:22 PM]
|
My Partner and I had something like this happen to us this season.
#1 team in the state on the road against a team they should crush, they aren't. It has been a tight, physical game from the start, but the #1 team is starting to pull away late in the 4th quarter.
My partner has a foul for a 1 and 1, as he reports it, the big kid for the home team walks by and gives a shoulder to the #1 teams' star player. Whack, I T him, now I'm reporting and my partner gets the star player for clapping in the kid's face.
We shot the 1 and 1 with nobody in the lane, then went to the arrow. In discussing it after the game we both thought we could/should have gone 1 and 1, 2 shots for the T, then shoot 2 at the other in for the second T. We thought that the line, "At approximately the same time," gave us an out for how we handled it, but we still had doubts.