Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
The description of the theoretical play fits that of a PC foul. However, in the actual play a referee may have seen what OC described as a push by the offensive player as an effort by the player to protect himself from contact by the defender, which is permitted. (NFHS 10-6-1)
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Say what? You can push off with an arm to protect yourself? Where exactly in R10-6-1 does it say anything like that?
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My point was that the player is saying that the offensive player was pushing. The official may have seen it differently.
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Whether the official saw it differently or not does not really apply to what you wrote above. You said above that a referee may have seen a "push by the offensive player"(your words). That "push" by the shooter is NEVER "permitted"(your words again) by rule, as you stated above, whether the shooter is trying to protect himself or not.There is NO wording in R10-6-1 that states that it is legal at any time for a player to push off to protect themself. Protecting yourself, by rule, is a passive act- not a proactive act like a push. If you are referring to the language in 10-6-1- i.e. "A player may HOLD the hands and arms in front of his/her face or body for protection and to absorb force from an imminent charge by an opponent", note that it says "hold", not "push off", and that the "hold" is a passive act.
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You are misquoting me, and misinterpreting the post. OC is the player, not the referee. The player is saying it was a push, not the ref. Please review OC's previous posts. Just because a player says a push occured does not mean a push has occurred. Since the ref did not call a foul, then he must not have seen a push.
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On the contrary, I am quoting YOUR statement above completely verbatim. And it is still completely wrong. You stated "However,in the actual play a referee may have seen what OC described as a push by the offensive player as an effort to protect himself from contact by the defender, WHICH IS PERMITTED". Iow, the ref did SEE the push and then called it legal because it's permitted!! Where in the rulebook does it say that it's permitted that a player can legally push off with their arm or hand to protect themselves? Well, that act is not permitted, has NEVER been permitted, and-unless they change the rules, will NEVER be permitted. It is illegal for a shooter to INITIATE contact by pushing off with his arm or hand. Rule 10-6-1.
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Correct. However, a player is permitted raise his hands to protect himself from contact from a defender. The other player may think this is a push. This is not a push. If there is no push there is no foul. If the player says he has been pushed and the ref says he has not been pushed, who is correct?
As for the misquote, I wrote "a referee may have seen what OC described as a push by the offensive player ", and you wrote that I wrote "a referee may have seen a "push by the offensive player"". Clearly the ref did not see a push. Or are you saying that the ref saw a push and didn't know enough to call it?