Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
If you considered it fighting though, it's a T (10-3-10) no matter if there is contact or not (4-18-1) and it's also flagrant (4-18).
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Camron,
This really is not true. Everyone who reads this board needs to know or be made aware that fighting is not always a T. Even though 10-3-9 (you accidently cited 10-3-10) in the rules book says, "...Be charged with fighting."
I would refer you to 4-19-4 for the definition of a flagrant foul, and ...
If you check the case book, you will see that fighting during a dead ball is a flagrant technical foul, while fighting during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul. Look specifically at 10.4.4 Situation A for the live ball ruling, and 10.4.4 Situation B for the dead ball ruling.
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The case you've mentioned does indeed say that. What we have is the case book contradicting the rule book since 10-4-9 quite clearly states that fighting is a T (with no qualification on live/dead ball). I'll accept that the case book is probably the right thing to do in spite of the rule book.
Even still, it's not as simple as live ball = personal and dead ball = technical.
Fighting during a live ball is still not neccesarily a flagrant personal. When, during a live ball, A1 throws a punch that doesn't land, it is still fighting. However, since there is no contact, it can't be personal...this one is a T.
I would also assert that you could have a swing that immediately kills the ball followed by contact (perhaps on a 2nd swing). If you catch the first swing, it's a T since its called before contact occurs.