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Originally posted by Hawks Coach
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Originally posted by blindzebra
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Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Judging from the diescription, I think intentional does the job. You don't see a lot of intentionals, so it stands out as a call much more than the common foul. The intentional makes it clear to both teams, coaches, and particularly the offending player, that you saw what happened and you won't tolerate it, and you are going to penalize it if it occurs. I think that is sufficient to keep things from escalating.
I think the flagrant is a little much, especially since you didn't start out with so much as an intentional foul. If there was so little contact that the player being fouled may not have even known it, I think you can consider it sufficient to give the intentional.
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Okay, let's say you call it intentional and B was aware she got hit. Five minutes go by and she gets a chance to even the score and does, but she lays out the other player.
Are we going to call this one an intentional foul and not flagrant?
You have to penalize the INTENT of the act, reguardless of the outcome of the act. [/B]
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And what if you hit them with the flagrant and B decides to even the score with someone else. and what if B's mom starts a fight in the stands. What if, what if, what if.
This play doesn't at all from rainmaker's description sound like the type of thing that would cause B to react in an overly adverse manner. B may be aware she got hit, but rainmaker said that it was questionable. So even if B knows it happened, she didn't get nailed in such a way as to hurt her and make her want to retaliate.
I am suggesting that the intentional is viewed by players at this level as a pretty severe penalty. So the majority of Bs out there will feel that justice has been done - they got two shots and the ball, A got a foul. If somebody out there feels it wasn't enough and decides to take more action, they can pay for that choice. But this act doesn't sound like a flagrant to me, and I don't think that a B that didn't feel (or barely felt) the contact is going to be looking for some more retribution.
I see much worse fouls on breakaway layups that you can't even get an intentional on, and they cause a lot of games to erode into ugly stuff. Start by calling a simple INT on some of those and you could keep some games under better control. [/B]
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It is an apple and orange comparison coach. A foul on a layup can be common, intentional, or flagrant. A punch, slap, or attempted swing IS flagrant by rule.
I've worked enough games to recognize plays that will escalate things and I have, and do, call intentional fouls in those situations.
By making a statement about a "WORSE" foul, I'd think you'd be all for calling the play for what it was, an attempt to strike another player in anger.