[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'll tell you my primary beef about how the officials are chosen for state in our association. All the officials are thrown into one pot, and voted on by everyone. This means that if a ref only does girls games, as all the women do in our association, only half the coaches see them, and they never get enough votes to make the top of the list. Also, since we put women together as much as possible to give the girls as many women refs as possible, not nearly as many men refs have seen the women refs as partners, so the ref part of the vote heavily favors the men also.

This is not really a fair depiction. With over 350 officials in the association (or over 200 regular members), it would take well over 10 years to work with every one in the association...by which time the membership would have changed drastically. After 10 years here, I've not worked with dozens of officials (not counting recently joining members).

Further, it would take a similar number years to work all of the schools for both boys and girls...by which time the coaches will have mostly changed. After 10 years here, I've not been to over 1/2 the schools.

BTW, it is not true that women only get girls games. Those that are qualified get boys games, even 4A.

The person with the fewest official's votes to work the tourney last year had just 18 officials voting for him (under 10% of vote eligible officals).

The person with the fewest coach's votes to work the tourney last year had just 8 coaches voting for him. (about 5% of vote eligible coaches).

Originally posted by rainmaker

So although we have several very capable women refs with years of experience, and lots of college and very high level HS experience, we have only two women who ever go to state, and then only two years on, and a year off, like everyone else. And neither has ever done the final.

That is approximately on par with percentages of women and men in the association. A lot of those guys that make state have been doing this for 20+ years. They paid their dues and stuck around and built their reputation until it was their turn. How many women have been around for 20+ years...none.

Originally posted by rainmaker
Yet a couple of years ago, I heard some of the refs from our association at state talking about how they never do girls games, and feel so out of their rhythm doing these games.

Women in our association get discouraged and quit, because there is not an avenue for advancement to state. It can't happen, so why bother?

Heck, it's not possible for 10 times as many men but they're not quitting. I'll probably never make state but that doesn't make me quit. I was told when I started that it takes an average of 10 years just to get a 4A boys varsity game (experienced transfers can get them after 1/2 a season after being observed). A few get one in 5-6 years, some never. The fact is that no one moves up and knocks someone out of a game unless they are BETTER than the other official...not just equal. This should apply to both men and women.

Originally posted by rainmaker

The frustrating part is that the fix is so simple: Add a requirement that a ref must do x number of girls' varsity games to go to the girls' tournament, and make x a reasonable number such as 10 or 12. This would also spread the tourney eligibility out a little more among the men, and would get refs to the state tourney that know and appreciate the girls' game.

If the goal is to get more women official into the playoffs that is wrong. The goal should be to get the best officials into the playoffs.

The girls games deserves to be treated the same as do women official...not seperate but equal. The only fair way is to put everyone in the same pot for votes.

However, I'm not opposed to having officials work a minumum number of games in girls/boys to work the playoffs. However, the reason would not be for spreading around the tourney but for the teams to get officials who're familiar with the style of the game.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jan 3rd, 2004 at 05:52 PM]