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Originally posted by wpiced
Do we have an English/grammer teacher in the house.
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The general understanding of whether an appeal out may also be a force out comes from OBR 7.12, which says in part:
"If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following the runner called out shall score. If such a third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score."
That says that appeal outs can also be force outs if the conditions that gave rise to the appeal occurred when a force play was in effect.
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Does OBR 7.12 really say that?
"If, upon appeal, ..." speaks to appeal plays being a third out. "If such a third out is the result of a force play..." speaks to third outs NOT appeal plays.
As I carfully read 7.12, it seem to me that it does not give permission to call and appeal play a force out even though a preceeding player has been put out first.
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With all due respect, Marty, I think you may have missed the import of the word "
such" in the subject citation. "
If such a third out ..." - meaning a third out on appeal - "
...is the result of a force play ..." That clearly points to force outs gained on appeal. IOW, if the third out on appeal is also a force out, then neither preceding nor following runners may score.
Here is a citation that covers, from an article entitled
Running the Bases - Part I by Nick Bremigan published in the March 1978 issue of
Referee Magazine:
Play: Runners at first and third, two outs. The batter singles. R-3 crosses the plate, R-1 advances to third, but missed second. The defense appeals and R-1 is declared out for the third out. Does the run score?
Rule 7.10(b) clearly covers the fact that R-1 is out on appeal. The question really is, then, whether an appeal can result in a force out. It most definitely can, as can be easily substantiated by reviewing several of the plays covered under Rule 4.09(a) in the case book. The run, therefore, cannot score, since the third out is a force out.
Although the subject rule is not mentioned specifically, many of the cited Casebook plays for OBR 4.09(a), and the related Casebook Comment, rely heavily on the wording of OBR 7.12 for their effect.
Hope this helps
Cheers