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Sure, everyone's input is great and makes sense. I am not trying to complicate the count. I am trying to answer one single question: Is there a count without a visual signal? Unless you visually signal an arm movement at 0, the answer is yes.
Another thread had a debate as to when the ball was at the disposal of an inbounder, the visual 5 second count, etc. It is clear that the ball can be at the disposal of a player and a count started but yet, not a visual signal.
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If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist? 
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