When is it holding?

[DeltaRef]

After 12 years of officiating little league ball, I was assigned to umpire a high school game.

But what puzzled me was that the white hat informed me not to call holding on the right side if the play went around the left side. That by doing so it would make us look stupid.

I played football for 9 years as a lineman, and I have personally chased down a runner on the opposite side of the field. Unless I was held.

So what do you think? When is holding - holding?

[Dale Smith]

Originally posted by DeltaRef
After 12 years of officiating little league ball, I was assigned to umpire a high school game.

But what puzzled me was that the white hat informed me not to call holding on the right side if the play went around the left side. That by doing so it would make us look stupid.

So what do you think? When is holding - holding?

Delta, with today’s liberal blocking rules holding can be called on all most every play. What you want to do is see the foul and then determine if the foul had any effect on the play. A left offensive tackle tugging the jersey of the defensive tackle while they are engaged, on a sweep around the right end is a talk to. You do not have to throw the flag immediately. Replay the play in your head, and then react. Remember the further away from the point of attack, the more severe the foul has to be to be called.
Good luck and have fun.
Dale Smith

[Bob M.]

REPLY: A really good question. Hopefully, I can supply a rasonable answer. I may have already posted this. If so, please excuse the double post.

“You can call holding on every play.” We’ve all heard it a hundred times. Personally, I don’t believe it. And even if you do believe it, and insist on calling it on every play, you won’t be calling it for very long. Offensive holding is certainly worthy of more discussion. Officials have heard many times that we should only call holding when it occurs at the point of attack, i.e. when it occurs at a place and time that may have an impact on the play. But that’s usually where the discussion ends. In my opinion, that’s exactly where the discussion should begin. More needs to be said about what actually constitutes holding, what types of actions should be flagged. What are the "keys" you look for when you have a player suspect for holding?

Let’s take a look at the wording of the rules prohibiting holding.

The Federation rule (NF 9-2-1c) says:
"An offensive player (except the runner) shall not…(c.) Use his hands, arms or legs to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain an opponent."

The NCAA rule (NCAA 9-3-3b) is similar:
"1. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent.
2. The hand(s) or arm(s) shall not be used to hook, clamp or otherwise illegally impede or illegally obstruct an opponent."

I’ve always believed that the operative words in the respective rules are “restrain,” “impede,” and “obstruct.” Unless the act restricts an opponent and prevents him from making a natural move toward the ball carrier at the point of attack), I’d be inclined to let it go.

A friend of mine told me what the NFL looks for when a player is suspect for holding at the point of attack: Look for the blockee to make an “unathletic move.” That is, look for him to make a move that in no way resembles what an athlete might do if he were pursuing a runner in a natural, unrestricted way. Examples: look for his shoulders to spin away from his direction of movement; look for his arm to be pulled away from the side of his body so that his balance is compromised. And the big one…look for the blockee to “lose his legs.” This last one deserves a better description. When an athlete moves, he typically has his body over his legs, which provide balance and a foundation for movement. If a player is restricted by an opponent in a manner such that either his legs are pulled out from under his upper body, or his upper body is held so that his unrestricted legs move out from under him, he has “lost his legs.” In such cases, the action by the blocker has clearly prevented his opponent from moving naturally toward the ball carrier. When such a restriction takes place at or close to the point of attack, you have a hold.

Another area of discussion...Suppose two opponents are facing off at the line of scrimmage. The offensive player grabs a handful of jersey inside. The two continue to face off as the runner passes by them. The NFL calls this a “dance” and will most likely not flag it if the defender is happy to just stand there in an embrace with his opponent. But, if the defender in this scenario makes a move toward the runner and a real restriction to his movement is obvious, you’ll undoubtedly see a flag.

Many college officials use these principles as well. I personally see no reason why they can’t also be used as your decision criteria in lower levels of football.

[JasonTX]

Not that this adds anything of value to this post but anyhow according to John Bible, he worked a Big 12 championship game and the Umpire that was on that crew had Zero holding calls all year long.

[Forksref]

I think that some umpires don't even carry a flag with them.

[chris s]

Originally posted by JasonTX
Not that this adds anything of value to this post but anyhow according to John Bible, he worked a Big 12 championship game and the Umpire that was on that crew had Zero holding calls all year long.

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GOD, I hate that name!!!!! Jon Bible...like he is God himself. He seems to be a favorite of you Texans. That's ok. My point...lets get onto the subject, and jason, no offense here..nothing personal.

As a U, 5-8 and a buck 80 when I am fat, you can tell when a d lineman is getting screwed, look at his shoulders when engaged. They get pulled down, to the side and he usually ends up on the ground. The reason is the inside hands grabbing lotsa jersey, who can see that?? R maybe, but he has other stuff to keep an eye on. Point of attack holds are one thing, but away from the play stuff is marginal at best. As the origanal poster stated he could chase em down if not held. Not buying completely into that, why do we have linebackers and DB's?

No energy right now, playing ball with my 10 year old busted ribs, mine it hurts to type!!! I work baseball as well and Bible is like .....ewwwwwwwwwwweeee. Thanks for the vent and , not a thing personal

[JasonTX]

GOD, I hate that name!!!!! Jon Bible...like he is God himself. He seems to be a favorite of you Texans. That's ok. My point...lets get onto the subject, and jason, no offense here..nothing personal.


You didn't offend me. I was just quoting what he said. He's not my favorite so don't put me in that boat. I'll take my chances by riding on the Titanic.

[chris s]

Originally posted by JasonTX
GOD, I hate that name!!!!! Jon Bible...like he is God himself. He seems to be a favorite of you Texans. That's ok. My point...lets get onto the subject, and jason, no offense here..nothing personal.


You didn't offend me. I was just quoting what he said. He's not my favorite so don't put me in that boat. I'll take my chances by riding on the Titanic.

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Jason, been round these boards for years, some folks get a bit "pissy"....LOL But the Titanic???? Some very bad engineering flaws!!!!! Bible was/is a big baseball guy....sob has a say in football too??

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by chris s
Jason, been round these boards for years, some folks get a bit "pissy"....LOL But the Titanic???? Some very bad engineering flaws!!!!! Bible was/is a big baseball guy....sob has a say in football too??

REPLY: He's still a referee in the Big 12 (right, Jason ??) but his "say" in football has been a little tarnished since he got accepted into the NFL (1996, I think) and then got bounced after a year or two. He even wrote an article for Referee Magazine talking about what he learned from being "fired."

Hey, don't dis the Bible name. If I'm not wrong, Jon Bible is a descendant of the great coach Dana X. Bible, who coached at Nebraska and Texas, among others way back in the days of leather helmets and no facemasks.

Originally posted by Forksref
I think that some umpires don't even carry a flag with them.

I thought that was back judges?