tag play at home-catcher in baseline question

nfsx2417 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 27, 2004, 01:20pm

what about running over the catcher when he is in your way on a tag play at home?? if you go around him either way, you could be called for running out of the baseline, so the only thing you can do is run over the catcher blocking the plate, right? that is what i thought yesterday and i got ejected from the game and a 1-game suspension in addition to that. the umpire told me that "they may do that in the majors, but you can't do it in high school". i didnt want to argue back and risk extending my susupension, but wasn't that my only choice, being that the catcher is in the baseline, and i can't run outside the baseline?? somebody please clarify this for me

p.s. we are using nfhs rules

EDIT-i wanted to add something-afterwards the umpire told me that i must slide on every play at home, but how can i do that with the catcher blocking it??? am i supposed to slide into the catcher's knee??

[Edited by nfsx2417 on Mar 27th, 2004 at 12:24 PM]

jicecone · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 27, 2004, 02:58pm

You know what is a real shame here son, you have a coach that has not taught you this part of the game your playing. Let alone NFHS rules. It is either his fault that you are sitting or yours for not listening. When a fielder is waiting to make a play on a runner, your choices are: 1. slide. 2. Give yourself up. 3.Go back to the base you were previously at. 4.Try and run around the fielder. Those are your your only options you have. Runng the catcher over is not in the rule book. For which you already know the penalty for.

You never HAVE to slide, but if you do it must be inaccordance with the rules and you cannot do anything to alter the play if you don't slide.

Go back to your coach and ask him to explain what you and the rest of the team need to know the next time this situation arises. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

DG · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 08:50pm

I coached for about 12 years and started umpiring also during that time. I always told my players to try to go around a catcher who is up the third base line to receive a throw. For a catcher at the plate, slide. If you touch him while he is up the line receiving the ball you could be called out for interference. If he does not have the ball and you go around him you could either reach home safely, or the umpire could rule obstruction (more likely) in which case you will be awarded home. Running into a catcher can get you ejected, if deemed malicious, and you can also get hurt because catchers are well equipped for collisions.

DG · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 08:54pm

Incidently, I will add a play I saw today. The catcher was blocking the plate for a runner coming home. The ball arrived about a quarter second before the runner. The runner slid into the catcher but could not reach the plate because it was blocked. The ball bounced out of the catcher's mitt in front of home plate. The catcher reached out, picked up the ball and tagged the runner. The call was an out, because the runner had still not reached the plate. I believe that once the ball was not caught, the catcher no longer had a right to block the plate and the ruling should have been obstruction, runner awarded home.

GarthB · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 29, 2004, 01:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
Incidently, I will add a play I saw today. The catcher was blocking the plate for a runner coming home. The ball arrived about a quarter second before the runner. The runner slid into the catcher but could not reach the plate because it was blocked. The ball bounced out of the catcher's mitt in front of home plate. The catcher reached out, picked up the ball and tagged the runner. The call was an out, because the runner had still not reached the plate. I believe that once the ball was not caught, the catcher no longer had a right to block the plate and the ruling should have been obstruction, runner awarded home.

IF the throw took the catcher to the baseline, no problem, no obstruction. After the catcher muffed the catch, I would watch both players. As long as they both were doing their jobs, in the catcher's case, going for the ball and the tag and not attempting to restrict the runner's movement, I've got nothing. These things happen and it's best to let the players play provided nothing overt is occurring.

Switching from a no call to obstruction based on a muffed catch is looking for boogers, in my opinion.

MPC · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 29, 2004, 09:37pm

The booger in this case may be the smart catcher who knows he can't make the catch so he is not only going to block the ball as he is taught, he is going to block the plate at the last second and take a chance on the runner having to get up to go around him while he picks the ball up and tags the runner.

Gre144 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 29, 2004, 10:48pm

What do you do if the catcher is in the base path and there is no play at home. The runner coming home runs him over. Do you call obstruction by the catcher and then eject the runner for causing malicious contact? Is a malicious contact always an automatic out?

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Mar 29th, 2004 at 09:51 PM]

jicecone · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 30, 2004, 07:31am

"What do you do if the catcher is in the base path and there is no play at home. The runner coming home runs him over. Do you call obstruction by the catcher and then eject the runner for causing malicious contact? Is a malicious contact always an automatic out?"

Avoid Contact. If there is no play at home, there is no need to run the catcher over or even have contact. Go around the catcher. If as a result of the runner going around the catcher, the runner is put out at home then enforce the obstruction. (But, you said there is no play at home). If runner does not avoid contact, call him out. Malicious contact will result in an out and ejection before the plate and just an ejection after the plate.

JCurrie · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 30, 2004, 10:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone
Avoid Contact. If there is no play at home, there is no need to run the catcher over or even have contact. Go around the catcher. If as a result of the runner going around the catcher, the runner is put out at home then enforce the obstruction. (But, you said there is no play at home). If runner does not avoid contact, call him out. Malicious contact will result in an out and ejection before the plate and just an ejection after the plate.

That's correct for NFHS, but for OBR, you would call the obstruction and then eject. There is no provision in OBR (unless modified by the various youth bodies) to call an out without a play or interference.

MPC · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 31, 2004, 07:47pm

Of course I had it last night at the same field where I had two ejections last year for runners plowing over the catcher. In this play R2 and base hit to short right. F9 comes up quick with a throw home to retire R2. Catcher is positioned over the plate to take the throw that is about 6' up 3rd base line. He runs directly up the line to make the catch. As soon as he reaches the spot he makes the catch and turns to tag R2 who is starting his slide. I call the runner out and the coach goes nuts. "He blocked the plate. He can't block the plate. Where's my guy supposed to go? Does he have to run around him?"

It was clear cut to me because he was out by so many feet. Had the C have ran up the line and waited to make the catch I would have had obstruction but in this case he went directly to the ball and made the catch and tag at the same time. Had he caught the ball in the grass he still could have tagged him in plenty of time. The coach was probably just pissed because he shouldn't have sent the runner.

I'm sure I'll have the same thing at the same place in the next week or so. He'll go nuts again I'm sure.

Larry · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 31, 2004, 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
I coached for about 12 years and started umpiring also during that time. I always told my players to try to go around a catcher who is up the third base line to receive a throw. For a catcher at the plate, slide. If you touch him while he is up the line receiving the ball you could be called out for interference. If he does not have the ball and you go around him you could either reach home safely, or the umpire could rule obstruction (more likely) in which case you will be awarded home. Running into a catcher can get you ejected, if deemed malicious, and you can also get hurt because catchers are well equipped for collisions.

DG, I like your answer but, can the catcher block the base line or any defense player when the defensive player does'nt have the ball.

DG · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 31, 2004, 10:26pm

Larry - it depends on rules being used. See 2004 BRD pages 197 and 198 for discussion. It's a gray area. For my personal sanity I generally rule in Fed and NCAA that fielder must have the ball to block, but for games under OBR rules the fielder can block if "in the act of fielding", but even in this case the thrown ball better be in flight and be close to the catcher (or other fielder). Close is relative, and in the umpire's judgement.