Gauge calibrated??

[kycat1]

Where can one get their ball gauge calibrated? I have a brand new qauge but mine is off compared to the last 3 times I checked it on balls checked by other officials.

[MCBear]

I am not aware of any place that does calibration on ball gauges. However, I am curious...what make and model of ball gauge do you have that seems to be out of calibration? Is it possible that you have a cheap gauge that never was calibrated properly to begin with? I have never heard of a gauge being out of calibration - just broken and not working properly.

As an FYI, Molten and Mikasa have digital electronic gauges available that cost $60 and $40 respectively while Molten and Tandem have inexpensive dial-type gauges with air release valves for $15 each. Any of them are available from Roof Sportswear in Southern California.

Good luck, I hope that you find something that gives you the results that you want.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by kycat1

Where can one get their ball gauge calibrated? I have a brand new qauge but mine is off compared to the last 3 times I checked it on balls checked by other officials.

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Can't you return it for a replacement?

[Scrapper1]

Ok, I'm sure I'm out in left field, but do you really need a gauge? Why don't we just bounce it and see if bounces the right height? That's how we judge it in basketball. Once you know how high a ball with the right air pressure bounces, won't they all bounce roughly that same height with the correct air pressure?

[MCBear]

Sorry, Scrapper, but on this one, you're not even in the ballpark!

Basketball refs judge the pressure by bouncing it because a properly inflated basketball will bounce the same height in any gym at any time (I used to be a b-ball ref, so I am very familiar with the bounce test).

In volleyball, we do NOT bounce the ball off the floor because we don't play any bounces off the floor. We gauge the ball so that it meets the pressure standards of being between 4.3 and 4.6 PSI. We are concerned with how a ball meets that requirement so that it can be handled properly by the players...never with how it bounces off the floor since a volleyball bouncing off the floor becomes a dead ball ending the rally.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by MCBear

We are concerned with how a ball meets that requirement so that it can be handled properly by the players...never with how it bounces off the floor since a volleyball bouncing off the floor becomes a dead ball ending the rally.

I understand that. We care about the internal air pressure, not how the ball reacts on the floor. But if the ball bounces the proper height off the floor, doesn't that indicate the proper internal air pressure?

That is, after all, why we bounce the ball in basketball. We're not checking to make sure it bounces straight up (although if it didn't, we obviously wouldn't use the ball); we bounce the ball to make sure it bounces the right distance so we don't get rebounds that go to the ceiling. IOW, we're not checking the shape of the ball, we're checking the air pressure.

[MCBear]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I understand that. We care about the internal air pressure, not how the ball reacts on the floor. But if the ball bounces the proper height off the floor, doesn't that indicate the proper internal air pressure? Since we don't bounce the ball off the floor as a part of the game of volleyball, how are we to know what the proper height will be if the pressure is correct???? First, we would have to gauge the ball to the proper air pressure so that we could learn how high it would bounce to be able to recognize it when we saw it.

That is, after all, why we bounce the ball in basketball. We're not checking to make sure it bounces straight up (although if it didn't, we obviously wouldn't use the ball); we bounce the ball to make sure it bounces the right distance so we don't get rebounds that go to the ceiling. IOW, we're not checking the shape of the ball, we're checking the air pressure. Agreed, but in volleyball we are not concerned with rebounds, we are concerned with the contact with the players - a soft ball sticking and causing prolonged contact and a hard ball ricocheting too quickly. As such, bouncing the ball off the floor to see how high it bounces doesn't tell us anything about whether the air pressure is correct, too high or too low.

What you are forgetting is that as basketball officials, we are familiar with how high the ball will bounce off the floor when the pressure is where we think it should be because we have experienced dribbling the ball during a game. In volleyball, we do not have that reference to fall back on. We don't bounce the ball to see if it will come up to a predetermined height since we would have to have gauged it anyway to find out WHERE that height would be.

Plus, there are times that we have the 3-ball system in use during a match. Bouncing three volleyballs to check their pressure is not an accurate way to determine whether they meet specifications or not. As you well know, basketball NEVER uses 3 different balls during the same game so we don't have a consistent reference point.

Scrapper, I started out as a basketball official and came to volleyball as my last sport. The most important thing I learned is that there are certain parts of the game of volleyball that are not the same as basketball. Checking the air pressure in the game balls is one of those things. I learned that we use a gauge for checking the pressure of volleyballs and we can gauge a basketball by how it bounces when dropped from a certain height. Two different techniques for two different sports. So, bottom line is we don't gauge volleyballs by using the bounce test because we don't have any references as to the proper bounce height to go by. Trust me on this one, Scrapper...we don't just check the ball by bouncing it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by MCBear

we do not have that reference to fall back on. We don't bounce the ball to see if it will come up to a predetermined height since we would have to have gauged it anyway to find out WHERE that height would be.

Please bear with me. Ok, we have to gauge it anyway. But let's just say we gauge a ball at 4.3 PSI and we gauge a second ball at 4.6 PSI.

Now we drop each ball from a height of 6 six feet. The first ball bounces (for the sake of example) to a height of 4 feet six inches. The second ball bounces to a height of 4 feet 10 inches.

Don't we now know that any volleyball that bounces to a height of 4'6" when dropped from 6 feet is a legal ball? Further, don't we know that any ball that bounces anywhere between 4'6" and 4'10" is a legal ball?

What conditions could change the allowable bounce? And if there are none, why then gauge it every time?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What conditions could change the allowable bounce? And if there are none, why then gauge it every time?

I'd say a brand new, harder, ball will bounce higher than a worn out, softer ball.

One floor might be a little softer than another. Synthetic court will yield a different bounce than a wood court.

I think you get the point.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

I'd say a brand new, harder, ball will bounce higher than a worn out, softer ball.

I think you get the point.

I honestly don't. Are you saying that you could have two volleyballs -- one old and one new -- that bounce exactly the same; yet one would be acceptable to play with and the other would not be acceptable?

[FMadera]

Yes, I'm saying you can have that. I'm also saying a volleyball bouncing off a sportcourt isn't going to bounce as high as a volleyball on a basketball court. A volleyball on basketball court A isn't going to bounce the same height as a volleyball on basketball court B. Not all balls have the same softness. A softer ball will compress more (and therefore, rebound less) than a harder ball. Every ball will react just a little more differently than the next one, so the bounce test doesn't fly.

The PSI rule is pretty clear. There is no other way to accurately measure it other than with a gauge of some sort. The rules don't specify how the ball should bounce, but they do specify how much air should be in them. Therefore, the gauge should be used to assess legality.

[Back In The Saddle]

Most of what I've heard so far equates to "it won't work because it won't work." Which is a total non-argument.

I do buy the argument about different surfaces producing a different bounce. I also think that the relatively small mass of a volleyball would probably make for a much wider range of bounce heights, and allow significant variability based on the material and age of the ball. Much more so that in a basketball.

[outathm]

I think that Basketball has always used the bounce test and so that is acceptable for them. Volleyball continues to require us to gauge the balls and that is what we will do.

It would be interesting to see what the Basketballs gauge at after a bounce test and what difference there is from proper inflation.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I do buy the argument about different surfaces producing a different bounce.

Since I only work games on hardwood basketball courts, this is irrelevant to me, personally. It might make some theoretical difference, but not to me.

I also think that the relatively small mass of a volleyball would probably make for a much wider range of bounce heights, and allow significant variability based on the material and age of the ball.

Being a non-physicist, this seems to me to admit of a fairly insignificant difference between balls.

And to a larger point, if 2 balls can have the same air pressure and bounce to significantly different heights, that's a terrible situation. You play the first set with a ball that the kids get used to. Then it rolls under the bleachers and you play with another ball. It's perfectly legal, because it's the same air pressure as the first. But the first server hits it 20 feet out of bounds because the ball bounces significantly more, even with the same air pressure.

That's a ridiculous situation.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I honestly don't. Are you saying that you could have two volleyballs -- one old and one new -- that bounce exactly the same; yet one would be acceptable to play with and the other would not be acceptable?

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Hey Scrapper,
Just go with them on this one. They're right. Volleyballs and Basketballs are like apples and oranges. You need to gauge them not bounce them. Think of it this way... one ball is bounced off the floor and the other is played repeatedly with figertips, hands, and forearms. Nothing close to the same thing. If you don't have a gauge, your partner probably will. If not, the school will on the electric pump.