2 x 4?

[Back In The Saddle]

If, on the third hit, a player his the ball into the net and it rebounds back and contacts the player, what is the correct call?

A) 2 hits
B) 4 hits
C) Doesn't matter; pick one

[TimTaylor]

Think about which one would always be a violation regardless of who the ball touched......if it's the 4th team contact then I'd go with 4 hits - no need to determine who it touched. Same reason you wouldn't call illegal contact if it bounced off the net & was caught by a different player - doesn't matter what kind of contact it was. There's a reference to this somewhere in the rule/case book but I don't have them handy to look it up.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If, on the third hit, a player his the ball into the net and it rebounds back and contacts the player, what is the correct call?

A) 2 hits
B) 4 hits
C) Doesn't matter; pick one

NFHS: 4
NCAA: 4
USAV: 2

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by FMadera

NFHS: 4
NCAA: 4
USAV: 2

Thanks, Felix. Is there a cite for this info? Did I just miss it in all my reading?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Think about which one would always be a violation regardless of who the ball touched......if it's the 4th team contact then I'd go with 4 hits - no need to determine who it touched. Same reason you wouldn't call illegal contact if it bounced off the net & was caught by a different player - doesn't matter what kind of contact it was. There's a reference to this somewhere in the rule/case book but I don't have them handy to look it up.

Thanks for the info. Though I don't entirely buy your logic. I can see saying just do the four hits because it's:

a) Consistent
b) Removes one additional judgment to have to make

However, the comparison to the fourth hit that is also a carry, doesn't quite work. In the 2 hits v. 4 hits scenario, both violations occurred. In the 4 hits v. illegal hit, the illegal hit didn't occur -- because the ball was dead the instant it touched the player for the fourth hit. It wasn't alive long enough for there to be prolonged contact.

But I believe I see what you were getting at with the analogy: Be consistent with the 4 hits call and it eliminates the need to even consider the details of the other violation.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Thanks, Felix. Is there a cite for this info? Did I just miss it in all my reading?

#95.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

In the 4 hits v. illegal hit, the illegal hit didn't occur -- because the ball was dead the instant it touched the player for the fourth hit. It wasn't alive long enough for there to be prolonged contact.

That's my point exactly. The instant the ball touches any player for the 4th contact it becomes dead - who it touches doesn't matter. Suppose the 4th contact was the ball hitting a player below the waist (illegal in NFHS) - the call is still 4 hits (at least in NFHS).

I know there's a reference to it in the NFHS material for this year, and it was mentioned in our rules meeting. I don't have my books with me & the online version is currently down - if I get a chance this weekend I'll dig it out & pass on the info for you.....

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

That's my point exactly. The instant the ball touches any player for the 4th contact it becomes dead - who it touches doesn't matter. Suppose the 4th contact was the ball hitting a player below the waist (illegal in NFHS) - the call is still 4 hits (at least in NFHS).

I know there's a reference to it in the NFHS material for this year, and it was mentioned in our rules meeting. I don't have my books with me & the online version is currently down - if I get a chance this weekend I'll dig it out & pass on the info for you.....

Thanks!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by FMadera

#95.

Thanks. This looks very useful!

[varefump]

I was taught to always call '4 hits' in NFHS because when player stats are kept, you want to penalize a team vs. penalizing an individual player.