The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Volleyball (https://forum.officiating.com/volleyball/)
-   -   Reaching over (https://forum.officiating.com/volleyball/106004-reaching-over.html)

Scrapper1 Wed May 03, 2023 10:08am

Reaching over
 
Another play from camp.

Team A's first contact is directed toward the net. It's very tight to the net, so the setter for Team A squats near the center line to dig it out of the bottom of the net.

Before the ball reaches the plane of the net, Team B blocker blocks the ball to the floor on A's side of the net.

I called the blocker for reaching over the net. The observer pointed out that it's only reaching over if the blocker takes away the opportunity for an offensive player to play the ball. And since the setter was nowhere near the ball, the definition "reaching over" hadn't been met. The setter wasn't trying to play the ball.

But in my mind she was going to play the ball, so I thought the blocker took that opportunity away. Thoughts?

bob jenkins Wed May 03, 2023 10:54am

I agree with you, at least for NFHS rules.

9-6-4c "Ball is falling near the net and, in the referee's judgment, no legal member of the attacking team could make a play on the ball."

FMadera Wed May 03, 2023 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1050762)
Another play from camp.

Team A's first contact is directed toward the net. It's very tight to the net, so the setter for Team squats near the center line to dig it out of the bottom of the net.

Before the ball reaches the plane of the net, Team B blocker blocks the ball to the floor on A's side of the net.

I called the blocker for reaching over the net. The observer pointed out that it's only reaching over if the blocker takes away the opportunity for an offensive player to play the ball. And since the setter was nowhere near the ball, the definition "reaching over" hadn't been met. The setter wasn't trying to play the ball.

But in my mind she was going to play the ball, so I thought the blocker took that opportunity away. Thoughts?

On the surface, I would agree, unless the ball would have gone over the net. If that's the case, that would meet the conditions of a completed attack, as that blocker wouldn't have been the reason A was unable to complete their attack.

Scrapper1 Wed May 03, 2023 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1050763)
9-6-4c "Ball is falling near the net and, in the referee's judgment, no legal member of the attacking team could make a play on the ball."

Part of the observer's point was that, in my case, no member of the attacking team COULD make a play on the ball. The ball was at the top of the net, and the only member of the attacking team near the net was squatting below the bottom of the net. So at the time of the block, no one was attempting to play the ball.

I totally see her point, but I never thought of it that way. I'd always thought that if the player was going to play the ball (eventually), it would be a fault. But she was saying that an attacking-team player has to be trying to play the ball at the moment the block occurs.

FMadera Wed May 03, 2023 01:46pm

This would be a good scenario to send to Julie Voeck for an official PAVO interpretation.

chapmaja Tue May 09, 2023 11:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1050762)
Another play from camp.

Team A's first contact is directed toward the net. It's very tight to the net, so the setter for Team squats near the center line to dig it out of the bottom of the net.

Before the ball reaches the plane of the net, Team B blocker blocks the ball to the floor on A's side of the net.

I called the blocker for reaching over the net. The observer pointed out that it's only reaching over if the blocker takes away the opportunity for an offensive player to play the ball. And since the setter was nowhere near the ball, the definition "reaching over" hadn't been met. The setter wasn't trying to play the ball.

But in my mind she was going to play the ball, so I thought the blocker took that opportunity away. Thoughts?

The key part of the rule is as follows (assuming HS rules)

9-6-4 (Blocking a ball on the opponents side of the net is permitted......

c. Ball is falling near the net and in the referee judgment not legal member of the attacking team could make a play on the ball.

could make a play on the ball.

as described in the OP, the setter was positioning herself so she could make a play on the ball. This was denied her by the opponent reaching over the net and blocking the ball in a manner that denied her the opportunity to play the ball out of the net.

I have reaching over on this all day and everyday based on what was described.

To add to this, this question was brought up at our officials clinic several years ago. The question was, if, in the referees judgment the only play that could be made was a diving attempt to save the ball, what would the call be. The response was the diving attempt would be made by a person in position to play the ball, therefore the only way our observer would not call this is if no legal player from the team was anywhere near where the ball would land if it wasn't contacted. The official who told us this is an official with multiple years of NCAA exeperience as an official and who has worked multiple state finals, plus has significant USAV experience.

chapmaja Tue May 09, 2023 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1050768)
Part of the observer's point was that, in my case, no member of the attacking team COULD make a play on the ball. The ball was at the top of the net, and the only member of the attacking team near the net was squatting below the bottom of the net. So at the time of the block, no one was attempting to play the ball.

I totally see her point, but I never thought of it that way. I'd always thought that if the player was going to play the ball (eventually), it would be a fault. But she was saying that an attacking-team player has to be trying to play the ball at the moment the block occurs.

I must have missed the part about the attacking team having to be attempting to make a play on the ball for it to be an issue. I don't see this in the rule. The rule specifically uses the word COULD (and not the word is, or words is trying to)

Scrapper1 Mon Jun 05, 2023 02:31pm

Here's the play! Please tell me what you think. The play starts at the 5:00 minute mark.

Sorry, I can't figure out how to have it play in the message. Here's the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWnAfUdDOnw

FMadera Mon Jun 05, 2023 03:00pm

If it's the play that ends around 5:20ish, though this hasn't been brought up before, I could see there being confusion on if there was an attack or a block.

Scrapper1 Thu Oct 12, 2023 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera (Post 1050769)
This would be a good scenario to send to Julie Voeck for an official PAVO interpretation.

I finally did sent it to Julie through the "Ask Julie" link on RQ+. Let's see if it gets a response.

timasdf Fri Oct 20, 2023 07:56pm

Here's a YouTube link with time included...
https://youtu.be/TWnAfUdDOnw?si=ZL5BnBpmqLZL-GZM&t=315

I think a Felix makes a good argument that this could be considered an attack, more than a block. Of course, it's impossible to determine the location of the ball when contacted.

Let us know if there is ever any word from Julie Voeck.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1