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Terrapins Fan Sun Jul 22, 2018 09:01pm

New volleyball official
 
After 20 years of officiating basketball, I've been asked to join the volleyball board, any advice?

Lcubed48 Mon Jul 23, 2018 07:02am

Just Do It!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 1023256)
After 20 years of officiating basketball, I've been asked to join the volleyball board, any advice?

Do it! Are you a complete novice like I was 6 years ago?

1) Get a mentor.
2) Find a place to work outside of the high school venue in order to see more plays just like any other sport - a local VB club or USAV.
3) Watch matches in person, on TV (Watch ESPN & BTN), & on the web (YouTube).

Enjoy it.

bob jenkins Mon Jul 23, 2018 07:38am

I was brand new three years ago -- it's a completely different challenge from being new in basketball or baseball (or I'd imagine, football or soccer, for example).

The challenge, as always, is the fun part -- and the frustrating part.

FMadera Mon Jul 23, 2018 08:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 1023256)
After 20 years of officiating basketball, I've been asked to join the volleyball board, any advice?

Best piece of advice I can give you is...never ever assume reffing volleyball is easy.

Tony.oe4 Mon Jul 23, 2018 04:49pm

Just like starting out officiating in most sports, it is not too hard to be okay but it takes a lot of time and effort to get good. Just because volleyball officials don't move around as much as many other sports, don't assume it is easy to officiate.

Lcubed48 Tue Jul 24, 2018 07:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera (Post 1023265)
Best piece of advice I can give you is...never ever assume reffing volleyball is easy.

On the BB board, it's always listen to Bob. 😋

On the VB board, it's always listen to Felix. :cool:

Here endeth the lesson! :)

Terrapins Fan Wed Jul 25, 2018 05:59pm

Thanks. Is there much discussion here?

bob jenkins Wed Jul 25, 2018 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 1023376)
Thanks. Is there much discussion here?

Not nearly as much as on the basketball forum. But, I have found it helpful.

Lcubed48 Thu Jul 26, 2018 07:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1023377)
Not nearly as much as on the basketball forum. But, I have found it helpful.

Also, I've found it not as adversarial as either the BB or SB forums are. It's a kinder gentler place.

timasdf Thu Jul 26, 2018 07:29pm

There are is one thing that many experienced basketball officials picking up volleyball have difficulty doing...

Slow down!!! In basketball the whistle and raised arm/fist are simultaneous, the signal for violation is often demonstrative.

In VB, it's slow and deliberate. Not demonstrative. Whistle, pause, award point signal, pause, violation signal.

Most basketball-to-volleyball officials start by doing the whistle and point signal simultaneously, followed immediately by the violation signal.

Slow down. Relax. In volleyball, you have a brief moment to quickly review what you just saw. Take advantage of it.

Come in humble and ask questions. You'll be fine.

bob jenkins Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by timasdf (Post 1023396)
There are is one thing that many experienced basketball officials picking up volleyball have difficulty doing...

Slow down!!! In basketball the whistle and raised arm/fist are simultaneous, the signal for violation is often demonstrative.

In VB, it's slow and deliberate. Not demonstrative. Whistle, pause, award point signal, pause, violation signal.

Most basketball-to-volleyball officials start by doing the whistle and point signal simultaneously, followed immediately by the violation signal.

Slow down. Relax. In volleyball, you have a brief moment to quickly review what you just saw. Take advantage of it.

Come in humble and ask questions. You'll be fine.

True -- but the whistle in VB needs to be quicker than the whistle in BK. THat's why in BK the violation / foul signal can be simultaneous with the whistle -- the BK official has already paused. There should be a delay in BK before the specific fault is signalled -- just as in VB.

ilyazhito Wed Aug 01, 2018 04:12pm

In basketball, the sequence is different. That is one thing that new volleyball officials from a basketball background need to remember. Basketball officials are supposed to signal that a foul or violation happened first (because that signal also serves to stop the game clock), and then explain the violation/foul by providing a signal, and finally giving the consequence of the violation/foul (free throws, a designated spot throw-in with the direction, or free throws followed by possession, with the designated spot). Because volleyball is not played under time constraints (the scoreboard clock only counts down the time in intermissions, the pre-game warmup period, and timeouts), volleyball officials do not have the responsibility to stop the clock before indicating the fault and consequences (awarding a point, or a replay, in some situations). This is why the sequence in volleyball is reversed compared to basketball (whistle, with no accompanying signal, to tell the players that play is stopped, awarding the point (this determines who serves, now that volleyball uses rally scoring), and then explaining the reason for the award by signalling the fault).

The reason for demonstrative signals in basketball is because the action takes place quickly, and can be missed if one is not paying careful attention. The signals are a way for the official to explain and "sell" the call at the same time. In volleyball, the action is fast-paced, but most faults are obvious (ball hit the floor, ball went out of bounds, server stepped on the line, serve hit the net, etc.), so officials do not need to be as demonstrative in volleyball as they do in basketball.

timasdf Thu Aug 02, 2018 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1023501)
The reason for demonstrative signals in basketball is because the action takes place quickly, and can be missed if one is not paying careful attention.

In volleyball, the action is fast-paced, but most faults are obvious (ball hit the floor, ball went out of bounds, server stepped on the line, serve hit the net, etc.), so officials do not need to be as demonstrative in volleyball as they do in basketball.

Welcome! That's an interesting perspective from someone on their first VB forum post (after hundreds of basketball/baseball posts).

Perhaps basketball officials are insecure in their calls if they have to jump around or hop while making a basic block call? :D Hopping, jumping, and flailing arms aren't mechanics I have seen in the NFHS officials' manual. ;)

Perhaps volleyball officials are more willing to stick with the officials' manual and don't see the benefit of drawing attention to themselves?

If all officials in all sports would stick to the manual, "selling the call" wouldn't be necessary.

ilyazhito Thu Aug 02, 2018 09:51pm

As you note, hopping, jumping, and flailing arms are not approved mechanics in NFHS basketball. These are also not approved at any other level. Good basketball officials do not show off with their signals, but they might make more emphatic signals in close situations (a foul happens with a shot, and the ball goes in, so the official must make the decision to count the shot or not, and make everyone believe their decision, a last second shot goes in, and the official must decide to count it or not, or there might be a foul that affects a critical possession) to convey their decision and make other people believe it. In addition, these officials use approved signals appropriately (NFHS signals in a high school game, NCAA-M signals in a men's college game, NCAA-W signals in a women's college game).

Baseball umpires follow a similar approach where they do not show off, but make more emphatic signals on close plays (a called strike 3 is made with a loud verbal signal and an emphatic chainsaw, bow-and-arrow, or punchout move; a close out or "banger" is made with a special forward punch signal; a ball near the fair line is pointed fair or foul several times instead of just once, etc.) to make the participants and viewers believe them.

This is why basketball (and baseball) use emphatic signals, but showing off and using unapproved signals are frowned upon in these sports by the officiating community. Volleyball may not have as strong a need for emphatic signals, because the faults are usually obvious (ball lands in or out, player hits the net, ball hits the antenna).

timasdf Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1023514)
As you note, hopping, jumping, and flailing arms are not approved mechanics in NFHS basketball. These are also not approved at any other level. Good basketball officials do not show off with their signals, but they might make more emphatic signals in close situations...

Baseball umpires follow a similar approach...to make the participants and viewers believe them.

This is why basketball (and baseball) use emphatic signals, but showing off and using unapproved signals are frowned upon in these sports by the officiating community.

I submit to you that signals outside of the NFHS/NCAA/other rule sets (for emphasis or to sell the call) is the very definition of showing off.

The only logical reason for using mechanics outside the manual is an effort to get unsporting coaches or spectators to not complain as much. I think that is a failure on the part of the larger officiating community.

If everyone would use only the mechanics in the manual, the manual mechanics would be seen/believed by coaches and spectators as the firm, unwavering decision of the official. There would be no need to make a more emphatic signal to "sell" a call. The call would be the call.

When many (most) deem it necessary to hop, jump, or flail when making a close call, it undermines every official that is trying to keep with the mechanics in the manual.

Terrapins Fan Sun Aug 05, 2018 07:38am

Update, finished my Part I test, scored an 86.

Not bad for a 1st year guy who has never been on the floor. I can't even pronounce Libero yet...

ilyazhito Sun Aug 05, 2018 08:04pm

Some people say LiBEARo, but I use (and most volleyball people use) LEEbero, as in Italian.

86 should definitely pass you for working varsity assignments, and probably the playoffs as well (not that a first-year official will be working playoffs, other than in a line judge capacity). You will get a lot of middle school assignments and some varsity R2 assignments (In volleyball, the officiating crew is divided into R1 (the first referee), who spends most of the match on the platform, supervises the serve, and blows the whistle to end play. He also awards points, and R2, who is in front of the scorer's table, and manages timeouts, the substitution process, and answers coach questions as needed. He is responsible for the actions of the receiving team, alignment faults, net faults, and center line violations. The crew is assisted by line judges (at least 2, one for the corners to the right of each referee, there can be 4 line judges at major events), 2 scorers, the home scorer is the official one, a libero tracker, and a timer (who times the intermissions, timeouts, and operates the scoreboard). Middle school and JV matches usually just use 1 official, in which case the R1 has to descend from the stand in between sets to manage the lineups and assure that teams are in the correct position. However, double (and triple-headers, should there also be a freshman team) might sometimes use a 2-person crew throughout (at others, R1 is R1 for all matches, with R2 coming for the varsity match).

Terrapins Fan Sun Aug 05, 2018 09:15pm

I have my schedule, We double on all games, I have 6 JV & 6 Varsity.

I doubt that I will get any play off assignments, but you never know because of injuries. I do have a JV Tourney.

Lcubed48 Mon Aug 06, 2018 06:47am

Well, maybe!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 1023546)
I have my schedule, We double on all games, I have 6 JV & 6 Varsity.
ext
I doubt that I will get any play off assignments, but you never know because of injuries. I do have a JV Tourney.

I don't know how the playoffs work in your state (MD??). Down here in the Commonwealth of VA, each match has 2 extra assignments as Line Judges. So for most rookie officials at the end of your first season, you'll be both a varsity and a playoff official. I couldn't say that in either of my other sports (BB & SB). Of course, I wasn't assigned into any situation that I couldn't handle.

SCalScoreKeeper Mon Aug 06, 2018 03:33pm

I line judged most of my first year and only went up/down maybe a handful of times. It was a great way to learn from experienced officials how to call a match. Even made it to the semis as a line judge. My advice: Learn every time you go out there whether its a technique or rule. When you are the R2: Get your net and centerline calls along with ability to control coaches and the table first. Then move onto overlaps and helping your partner. If you want to post film of your work we'll be happy to watch.

Lcubed48 Tue Aug 07, 2018 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper (Post 1023563)
I line judged most of my first year and only went up/down maybe a handful of times. It was a great way to learn from experienced officials how to call a match.

PS Always listen to Derryl, also!

SCalScoreKeeper Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:37am

I appreciate the vote of confidence LCubed48 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D


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