The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Volleyball (https://forum.officiating.com/volleyball/)
-   -   R1 Repeat R2 Signals? When? When Not? (https://forum.officiating.com/volleyball/101750-r1-repeat-r2-signals-when-when-not.html)

timasdf Thu Oct 20, 2016 03:27pm

R1 Repeat R2 Signals? When? When Not?
 
It is my understanding that the R1 does not repeat the signal for a fault that is whistled by the R2. Everything I can find is that this is the correct procedure for a *fault*.

Net fault whistled by R2:
R2 gives net fault signal, then reports player number to R1, then mirrors R1's result of play signal.

R1 signals result of play, then player number (never giving Net Fault signal). Center Line Violation is same, minus player number.

My understanding was that this is not the case when R2 whistles for ball traveling outside his/her antenna. In this case, R2 whistles, signals Out-of-Bounds / Antenna Violation, then result of point. R1 signals result of point, then signals Out-of-Bounds / Antenna Violation.

Is my understanding correct, or should R1's signal sequence for ball outside antenna be abridged as it is for net and center line faults?

Thoughts? Rule References?

Tony.oe4 Fri Oct 21, 2016 08:28am

In NHFS, I believe the R1 mirrors all the signals of the R2. If the R2 has a net violiation, R2 whistles, indicates the net violation, gives the number to the R1 and signals point. R1 signals point, indicates the net violation and then gives the number to the coach.

In USAV, the R1 does not mirror the R2's violation calls.

bob jenkins Fri Oct 21, 2016 09:02am

I agree with Tim's understanding -- at least in the mechanics we use here.

timasdf Fri Oct 21, 2016 01:29pm

When a net fault is whistled by the R2, the R1 absolutely does not make the net fault signal (Signal #6). This is the third season with this as NFHS rule. Rule 5-2-1b

I was specifically asking about the procedure when R2 whistles for ball traveling outside his/her antenna.

In another search, I am led to believe that the same procedure for R1 applies.

I found this: 5-3-b(1). Second referee's specific responsibilities shall be to: Whistle and give the signal for calls initiated by the second referee including time-out,substitutions and ball out of bounds for an antenna fault on second referee's side of the net;

That calls it an "antenna fault." If so, it's considered a "fault." Then, Rule 5-2-1b applies... If a fault is whistled by the second referee, he or she will indicate the nature of the fault and the player at fault, if necessary. The first referee, if in agreement, will then indicate the result of the play (point or replay), followed by the player at fault, if necessary; the second referee will mirror the signal of point or replay.


Thus, looking up 5-2-1b may have led me to the answer I was seeking. As far as I know, there is only one official (out of 75+ in our association) that is not giving the out of bounds signal (#14) in the outside the R2's antenna situation. I would have said zero officials, until I worked with the one a few days ago.

That said, there isn't a specific guideline for this. Just my combining references to come to this new conclusion.

If anyone has any further clarification or thoughts, I would be happy to hear them.

Tony.oe4 Fri Oct 21, 2016 03:21pm

Tim, at least at one of the clinics I had to attend over the past few years, they did explain the "antenna fault" as you described where the R1 does not mirror the R2. For the other calls including net, rotation, etc., I believe the R1 does mirror the call of the R2. I believe this to be correct because of the emphasis the clinician made about the R1 not mirroring the R2 on "antenna faults." I will check my books tonight and see if I can find anything in writing to support either way.

Tony.oe4 Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:12am

Tim, after reviewing the 2015-2016 casebook, I found a passage to support you. On page 82, it states "If a fault is whistled by the second referee, he/she indicates the nature of the fault and the player at fault, if necessary. The first referee, if in agreement, will then indicate the result of the play (point or replay), followed by the player at fault, if necessary. The second referee mirrors the signal of point or replay."

Based on this passage, any fault the second referee calls, including antenna faults, the R1 does not mirror.

Good to know I have been doing this procedure wrong for many years. At least now I know to correct it :-)

timasdf Mon Oct 24, 2016 05:52pm

Hi Tony,

Yes. That rule book quote (5-2-1b) is exactly what I listed in my post a day earlier! :-)

My only question was about the antenna violation. While not explicitly stated, it now seems reasonable (based on 5-2-1b and 5-3-1(b)) that R1 should not mirror any fault signals initiated by the R2.

- Tim

Tony.oe4 Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:10am

Tim, based on the wording you quoted, I believe there would be NO mirroring of an antenna fault along with all the other faults the R2 calls.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1