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-   -   Almost left me speechless.... (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/99639-almost-left-me-speechless.html)

Skahtboi Sat Apr 04, 2015 01:16am

Almost left me speechless....
 
When a coach makes a substitution or any lineup change for that matter, I use the following procedure. The coach approaches and tells me their change. Now we all know there are those who like to walk off as soon as they tell you. I stop the coach, get out my line up card holder and writing utensil, and then say, "now what do you have, coach." This requires them to repeat the change to me. At that point, I say back to them exactly what it is they want to do, and if it is a substitution I not only repeat the numbers, but also say the last name of the player. This way they have to confirm, once again, what it is they want to do. Now...with that understanding, here is what happened to me tonight,

Top of the third inning, VC comes to me and says, "13 for 21."

Me: Hang on just a sec, coach, and let me catch up to you. (Pulling out the line up card holder and finder her line up.) Now, what is it you would like to do??

VC: "13 for 21."

Me: "Okay, let's see here, that's number 13, Jones (names are made up here), for number 21, Smith, in the fourth spot in the order. Is that correct?

VC: "Yes."

Me: "Thank you coach." I then record the change and report it to the HC and the scorer.

Game continues. In the bottom of the inning she walks by and says "21 is re-entering." Again, I stop her and pull out the card holder and say to her, "21, Smith, is back in the game for 13, Jones. Is that correct?" Again, she confirms I am correct. I report the change to the interested parties.

Now then, top of the fifth. VC again approaches me. I call time, and she says the following:

"13 is going in for 12." And starts to walk away. Again, I stop her while I get the line up card out.

Me: "Coach, 13 cannot enter the game again in number 12's spot. She has already been in the game for number 21."

VC: "No. I put number 17 in for 21."

Me: "No ma'am. You substituted number 13, Jones, for number 21, Smith. You confirmed that change to me."

VC: "No. That was number 17. You just wrote it down wrong."

Me: "Coach, you made the change as I stated, confirmed both name and number of the players involved in the change a second time."

VC: "You just wrote it down wrong. (And here her first slip up in this story.) I meant number 17."

Me: "Coach, it doesn't matter, the change, as you see it here (showing her the card) is the official change."

VC, to 13: "Take a seat. You're done."

Now, here is her second slip up. My partner was in C, and heard the following exchange.

Runner on third: "What was that about?"

VC: "I put Suzy (Jones) in earlier and he caught me on it."

Now, when my partner told me this, I was floored. Because now this meant that a) she took me as being stupid, b) intentionally lied to me about number 17, which I already knew, and most of all, c) was intentionally trying to cheat in a game which she was leading 15-0.

I don't recall anything so blatant ever happening like this before in a HS game. I am floored that people will sink to these depths for a game.

3afan Sat Apr 04, 2015 05:12am

get used to it.....

RKBUmp Sat Apr 04, 2015 08:39am

Doing high school bat check a couple of years ago. I pick up a Rocketech, run my hand down the barrel and it has an obvious dent. Show it to my partner and he responds with, "ya, saw that one in the game last night and pulled it because of the dent". Coach is sitting on the bench just inside the fence, starts laughing and says, "thought maybe we could sneak it by tonight."

prab Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:06am

People like the two coaches mentioned above also get to vote and sit on juries. Now that is what is really scary.

Skahtboi Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3afan (Post 960106)
get used to it.....

After 20 some odd years, I don't think I can. This is the first time I recall any coach being caught in so blatant a lie.

IRISHMAFIA Sat Apr 04, 2015 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3afan (Post 960106)
get used to it.....

Bullshit! Call out every coach on shit like this and I don't care what level of ball it is. And make sure you make everyone you can aware of the lack of integrity of that teams staff.

Stat-Man Sat Apr 04, 2015 07:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 960104)
I don't recall anything so blatant ever happening like this before in a HS game. I am floored that people will sink to these depths for a game.

Years ago, when my HS alma mater was still open, I was the scorekeeper for our varsity softball team. We were on the road for a doubleheader and the first game ended up suspended due to rain and unplayable field conditions. so, a new date was set for later in the year.

If I understand correctly, teams are supposed to use the exact same lineup at the point of interruption. Our team lost a couple of players due to injury, so our coaches and I worked together to try to figure out which subs could go where in terms of the batting order and defensive positioning for the day we resumed play.

On the day of the makeup, as we exchange lineups for the resumption, the other team's coach submitted an entirely different lineup than before--some players that started the game originally now appeared in different locations in the new batting order. :confused::eek: I honestly didn't know what to do, so I said nothing while asking myself if that was legal. As an aside, this particular coach was notorious for his eccentricity and attempting to do anything the umpires would allow.

They won the resumed game, but we won the second game in the bottom of the 7th, thanks to three straight throwing errors after we loaded the bases. :D

I've since learned that in our state, (or at least in our officials association), that when a game is suspended, the lineup cards from the point of interruption aren't forwarded to the new umpiring crew. It makes me wonder how the new crew would be aware of any warnings or other issues addressed prior to the suspension of play.

Altor Sat Apr 04, 2015 07:48pm

At the very least, the OP would have gotten a "sportsmanship report" to the State's AA from me.

SNIPERBBB Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 960124)
Years ago, when my HS alma mater was still open, I was the scorekeeper for our varsity softball team. We were on the road for a doubleheader and the first game ended up suspended due to rain and unplayable field conditions. so, a new date was set for later in the year.

If I understand correctly, teams are supposed to use the exact same lineup at the point of interruption. Our team lost a couple of players due to injury, so our coaches and I worked together to try to figure out which subs could go where in terms of the batting order and defensive positioning for the day we resumed play.

On the day of the makeup, as we exchange lineups for the resumption, the other team's coach submitted an entirely different lineup than before--some players that started the game originally now appeared in different locations in the new batting order. :confused::eek: I honestly didn't know what to do, so I said nothing while asking myself if that was legal. As an aside, this particular coach was notorious for his eccentricity and attempting to do anything the umpires would allow.

They won the resumed game, but we won the second game in the bottom of the 7th, thanks to three straight throwing errors after we loaded the bases. :D

I've since learned that in our state, (or at least in our officials association), that when a game is suspended, the lineup cards from the point of interruption aren't forwarded to the new umpiring crew. It makes me wonder how the new crew would be aware of any warnings or other issues addressed prior to the suspension of play.


We note anything like restrictions/EJ's on the card and have them signed and they go with the home book. If you have a consistent lineup card management throughout your association(s) things should be easy for the new crew to figure things out.

Dakota Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by prab (Post 960110)
People like the two coaches mentioned above also get to vote and sit on juries. Now that is what is really scary.

Or, become attorneys general, secretaries of state, directors of the IRS, ... :(


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