The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Softball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/)
-   -   An Even Number of Umpires Making the Call (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/99617-even-number-umpires-making-call.html)

teebob21 Mon Mar 30, 2015 02:36pm

An Even Number of Umpires Making the Call
 
R1 on 3B, no outs. I am base umpire in C position. BR hits a soft grounder up the 1B line and it is fielded by F3. BR stops on baseline maybe 15-18 feet out of the batter's box (I am charging into the diamond). F3 throws to F2 who makes a late tag play on the scoring R1, ruled safe by my partner. At the same time as the throw from F3 to F2, BR steps back towards home. (NCAA 12.2.11)

Both my partner and I came up with Dead Ball at the same time. Since he was closer than me to the BR, and he is generally louder, he administered the call and I backed off. BR out, R1 goes back to 3B, no run scores. No one complained about anything and the game went on.

Here's my question: which umpire has primary coverage of the BR interference on that situation? Is it the base umpire (who has responsibility of the BR to 3B) or the plate umpire (who is closest)? CCA Manual isn't specific in this case, but does offer a general guideline that the umpire closest to OBS/INT makes the call. Did I step on his call?

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 30, 2015 02:40pm

Interference (or obstruction) is one of those calls where if you see it, you call it. I don't think, technically, either of you have "full jurisdiction" on this particular brand of interference.

RKBUmp Mon Mar 30, 2015 02:58pm

I must be missing something, if F3 threw to F2 for a play on a runner advancing to home, a play is no longer being attempted on the batter/runner so why would she be guilty of interference for stepping backward?

teebob21 Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 959621)
I must be missing something, if F3 threw to F2 for a play on a runner advancing to home, a play is no longer being attempted on the batter/runner so why would she be guilty of interference for stepping backward?

The two actions (throw to home and the backwards step away from F3) were basically simultaneous. I should have included that detail in my original description.

RKBUmp Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:22pm

I guess my question now is, did F3 ever intend or attempt a play on the batter/runner or was the play strictly to home? The rule says to delay or avoid a tag, if F3 never attempted to play on the batter/runner and was always throwing to home Im not seeing where this is interference.

teebob21 Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 959627)
I guess my question now is, did F3 ever intend or attempt a play on the batter/runner or was the play strictly to home? The rule says to delay or avoid a tag, if F3 never attempted to play on the batter/runner and was always throwing to home Im not seeing where this is interference.

In my judgment, yes. F3 was closing the distance to tag the standing-still BR when she noticed the R1 coming in to score. F3 was so close to the BR when she threw that I couldn't believe she was giving up on the easy out...I got caught ball-watching a little bit for the play at the plate, then noticed the BR had moved back with the throw.

Edit: The point of the post was to figure out what the wisdom of the crowd said about the calling responsibility. The way it unfolded I think it would have been clear to other umpires that the BR was delaying her approach to 1B to avoid the tag/put-out and allow R1 to score. This, of course, was completely legal until she stepped back toward home plate. It's hard to communicate all the nuances of that happened in those 2 seconds in text online.

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 959624)
The two actions (throw to home and the backwards step away from F3) were basically simultaneous. I should have included that detail in my original description.

Then you've kind of changed the play --- the batter-runner must be stepping back TO AVOID A TAG in order to be guilty of interference. If they was no tag attempt happening when they moved backward, this is nothing.

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 959629)
In my judgment, yes. F3 was closing the distance to tag the standing-still BR when she noticed the R1 coming in to score. F3 was so close to the BR when she threw that I couldn't believe she was giving up on the easy out...I got caught ball-watching a little bit for the play at the plate, then noticed the BR had moved back with the throw.

Edit: The point of the post was to figure out what the wisdom of the crowd said about the calling responsibility. The way it unfolded I think it would have been clear to other umpires that the BR was delaying her approach to 1B to avoid the put-out and allow R1 to score. This, of course, was completely legal until she stepped back toward home plate. It's hard to communicate all the nuances of that happened in those 2 seconds in text online.

Based on these words alone, this is not INT.

By your own words, at the moment the batter-runner moved backward, F3 was attempting a throw, not a tag. "Delaying her approach to 1B" is completely legal (heck ... it's good baserunning).

jmkupka Mon Mar 30, 2015 04:02pm

If backing up without a tag attempt were INT, a heads-up BU could do it if she saw her teammate from 3B was about to be thrown out at home. Worst that could happen would be runner returns to 3B (less than 2 outs of course )

Andy Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 959617)
....Both my partner and I came up with Dead Ball at the same time. Since he was closer than me to the BR, and he is generally louder....

Must have been working with azbigdawg.....

jmkupka Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:28am

sorry... I meant a heads-up BR...

teebob21 Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 959758)
Must have been working with azbigdawg.....

Very perceptive, Andy.

azbigdawg Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 959758)
Must have been working with azbigdawg.....

:eek::eek::D

CecilOne Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 959633)
Based on these words alone, this is not INT.

By your own words, at the moment the batter-runner moved backward, F3 was attempting a throw, not a tag. "Delaying her approach to 1B" is completely legal (heck ... it's good baserunning).

Looks like the crux is " the BR had moved back with the throw"; which seems to mean a tag was not being attempted.

Back to the mechanics question, I believe the BU has primary responsible for most of BR; but the OP implies pretty close to HP, like a swipe tag in the first half of HP to 1st is usually the PU call.
Of course, as said " see it, call it" for INT or OBS.

BTW, not necessarily a NCAA answer.

azbigdawg Tue Mar 31, 2015 02:59pm

To answer the OP... I may have stepped on your toes, but it was right in front of me. So if we got it wrong by the book it is my fault. But we looked damn good on that call.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1