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-   -   Miss St @ Ole Miss (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/99565-miss-st-ole-miss-video.html)

Tru_in_Blu Sat Mar 21, 2015 04:08pm

Miss St @ Ole Miss (Video)
 
Watched the end of this game.

Tie game in the bottom of the 9th. Runner on 3rd. Batter has a 3-2 count. Next pitch was a wild pitch for ball 4 with the runner from third scoring. Batter took perhaps 3 or 4 steps towards first base and stopped. She then joined in the celebration around home plate.

Since the game went (much) longer than anticipated, they cut away from that game pretty quickly.

Should the BR have touched first base? Would this have been an appeal situation?

CecilOne Sat Mar 21, 2015 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 958700)
Watched the end of this game.

Tie game in the bottom of the 9th. Runner on 3rd. Batter has a 3-2 count. Next pitch was a wild pitch for ball 4 with the runner from third scoring. Batter took perhaps 3 or 4 steps towards first base and stopped. She then joined in the celebration around home plate.

Since the game went (much) longer than anticipated, they cut away from that game pretty quickly.

Should the BR have touched first base? Would this have been an appeal situation?

Would the run have counted on a steal or other non-walk?

Tru_in_Blu Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:07am

D3k?

AtlUmpSteve Sun Mar 22, 2015 06:35pm

I think the play has some discussion merit, but you're asking the wrong question. At no time is this an appeal play; the BR did not miss the base, the BR did not proceed to first base. That isn't an appeal play, it's a call that must be made by PU when it occurs.

And you really don't give us all the info necessary to determine if it matters. You don't tell us how many outs, or if there were other runners. Here are some issues to consider:

1) With less than two outs, the run scores; this can only matter if the BR failing to advance is the third out.

2) If bases were loaded, NCAA (and NFHS, but not ASA) considers all forced advances as awarded bases. So, in that case, the run scores.

3) The "does not proceed" rule (12.2.4) says she is out and the ball remains live when she leaves the field of play. That didn't happen; but the rest of the offense made it a dead ball when they came out of the dugout to begin their celebration.

The rules appear to support (I say appear because the exact scenario is not covered, and that allows DA interpretation) PU calling the BR out, and the run not scoring (no run can score when the third out is a result of BR fails to reach first safely). There is no approved ruling on a case play that would have this run scored with two outs and a single runner on third.

Ironic that the run absolutely scores if anything but ball 4 or d3k, making the batter a BR. Now, do I make that call? Honestly, if the defense walks off, so will I, just as if they missed an opportunity to make an appeal. But they appear aware, I would be, too.

Tru_in_Blu Sun Mar 22, 2015 08:13pm

Steve, I neglected to mention there were 2 outs at the time. Runner on 3rd (only). The 3-2 pitch was a wild pitch w/ runner from 3rd scoring. BR did not proceed to first base. My first question was if the BR should have touched first base.

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 23, 2015 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 958786)
Steve, I neglected to mention there were 2 outs at the time. Runner on 3rd (only). The 3-2 pitch was a wild pitch w/ runner from 3rd scoring. BR did not proceed to first base. My first question was if the BR should have touched first base.

And he answered that.

APG Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:19am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmCE2QiDr2s

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pmCE2QiDr2s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tru_in_Blu Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:59am

APG, thanx for posting the video. Can't be any clearer than that!

Steve, you stated:
The rules appear to support (I say appear because the exact scenario is not covered, and that allows DA interpretation) PU calling the BR out, and the run not scoring (no run can score when the third out is a result of BR fails to reach first safely). There is no approved ruling on a case play that would have this run scored with two outs and a single runner on third.
What is "DA interpretation"?

Thanx,

Jake26 Wed Apr 01, 2015 05:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 959921)
APG, thanx for posting the video. Can't be any clearer than that!

Steve, you stated:
What is "DA interpretation"?

Thanx,

I am not Steve, but I am confident DA is Dee Abrahamson, the NCAA Secretary-Rules Editor. Part of her duties are to provide interpretations and clarifications of the NCAA Rules.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake26 (Post 959970)
I am not Steve, but I am confident DA is Dee Abrahamson, the NCAA Secretary-Rules Editor. Part of her duties are to provide interpretations and clarifications of the NCAA Rules.

Exactly. Several of the interpretations over the years have left me scratching my head, like not accepting substitutions unless that batter is now up to bat.

KJUmp Thu Apr 02, 2015 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 958700)
Watched the end of this game.

Tie game in the bottom of the 9th. Runner on 3rd. Batter has a 3-2 count. Next pitch was a wild pitch for ball 4 with the runner from third scoring. Batter took perhaps 3 or 4 steps towards first base and stopped. She then joined in the celebration around home plate.

Since the game went (much) longer than anticipated, they cut away from that game pretty quickly.

Should the BR have touched first base? Would this have been an appeal situation?

See 12.2.4 & 12.11.1

Tru_in_Blu Fri Apr 03, 2015 03:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJUmp (Post 960046)
See 12.2.4 & 12.11.1

Maybe that helps those who do college games. I do not and don't have that rule book.

teebob21 Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 960079)
Maybe that helps those who do college games. I do not and don't have that rule book.

Luckily for non-college officials interested, the NCAA had a brief episode of sanity at some point, and the rules are available to everyone for free: https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4...all-rules.aspx

Tru_in_Blu Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:03am

Thanx TeeBob,

I downloaded the rules.

UmpireErnie Sat Apr 11, 2015 05:15pm

Ok let's say this was a HS game under NFHS rules. It's two outs and the wild pitch is ball four so the batter has become a batter-runner.

The batter-runner failing to run to 1B and leaving the field is not an appeal. But if both teams remain on the field and proceed as if the game is over i.e. line up for handshakes etc how would you proceed when the only two people aware that the batter (now a batter-runner) is still supposed to go to 1B are you and your partner?

Remain on the field and wait until batter-runner finally leave the field of play without touching 1B and then declare her out and negate the run? What if it's several minutes later? I don't think so.

If someone (either team) would have realized that since it was ball four the batter was now a batter-runner and technically required to go touch 1B she still could have done it and she would not be out. So while it's not an appeal I am treating this like a game ending play where there is a possible appeal: I'll hesitate to see if anything further is going to happen but once it is apparent that everyone is treating the game as one that is over I am too.


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