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agr8zebra Tue Feb 24, 2015 05:50pm

NFHS Test Question
 
Only the home plate umpire has the authority to enforce penalties restricting players and coaches to the dugout.

Is the base/field umpire ever given authority to Restrict/Eject a coach.

Don't see it in 10.3.2, I see player not coach.

Unless it is part of the "concurrent jurisdiction with the plate umpire in calling"....

RKBUmp Tue Feb 24, 2015 06:46pm

As usual who knows what they want, but I believe on the questions I just missed only the plate umpire can eject a coach.

Under plate umpires duties it also says call the game if the conditions become unfit, but in another portion of the book it says umpires, plural. So, what is the answer? One part of the book says the plate umpire, another says both.

agr8zebra Tue Feb 24, 2015 08:05pm

Where does it say Both?

Tru_in_Blu Tue Feb 24, 2015 09:14pm

Well, Section 2 Art. 3 says the plate umpire's duties include inspecting equipment.

Under Section 3, there is nothing mentioned about the field umpire inspecting equipment.

Does that mean that the field umpire shouldn't inspect equipment? Probably not, but it's not clear.

When I work games, my partner and I always check equipment together.

Anyone out there recording the number of bats and helmets on the team's lineup card (which you haven't received yet because you haven't held the pregame conference)? Pg. 13 of the umpires manual.

I've never done it and never had a partner that did it. Guess this is a big deal at the NCAA level and I've heard it can take over 30 minutes to get it done.

RKBUmp Tue Feb 24, 2015 09:16pm

4-1-6 states the umpires (plural) are the sole judges (plural) but 10-2-3 puts this responsibility as the plate umpires responsibility to call the game because of condition.

agr8zebra Tue Feb 24, 2015 09:34pm

I will give the fact the Plate has some very specific responsibilities and authority, that the field Ump does not....

Is one of those Specific, Only the Plate can Restrict &/or Eject a coach?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Feb 24, 2015 09:59pm

A Base/Field Umpire can most certainly restrict or eject a player or coach. Read NFHS R10-S3-A1.

MTD, Sr.

RKBUmp Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:07pm

10-3-a1 gives authority to disqualify a player. Eject a coach is listed only under plate umpire.

agr8zebra Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:48pm

In fact the word coach in not mentioned in Rule 10 Section 3

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by agr8zebra (Post 956134)
In fact the word coach in not mentioned in Rule 10 Section 3


Situation: I am the BU/FU. R1 attempts to steal 2B. I call R1 out at 2B. 1B Coach charges at me from the 1B Coach's Box screaming obscenities. You can bet your sweet bippy that I am ejecting him. I do not need the PU to do it for me.

MTD, Sr.

teebob21 Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:42pm

Rule 10-Section 1-Article 5: "The umpire's right to disqualify players or to remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsporting conduct is absolute."

http://media.nj.com/yankees_main/pho...2148-large.jpg

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 25, 2015 01:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 956137)
Rule 10-Section 1-Article 5: "The umpire's right to disqualify players or to remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsporting conduct is absolute."

http://media.nj.com/yankees_main/pho...2148-large.jpg


You mean Article 6, not Article 5.

MTD, Sr.

teebob21 Wed Feb 25, 2015 02:56am

MTD, I rarely disagree with you, but double check. Art. 6 references umpires and tobacco in the 2015 book.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 25, 2015 03:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 956141)
MTD, I rarely disagree with you, but double check. Art. 6 references umpires and tobacco in the 2015 book.


This is straight from the 2014-15 NFHS Baseball Rules Book which you can find online if you are registered with the NFHS:

R10-S1-A6: No umpire may be replaced during a game unless he becomes ill or is injured. His right to disqualify players or to remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute. Ejections will be made at the end of playing action.

MTD, Sr.

BretMan Wed Feb 25, 2015 05:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 956142)
This is straight from the 2014-15 NFHS Baseball Rules Book which you can find online if you are registered with the NFHS.

Did you forget which board you're on? ;)

RKBUmp Wed Feb 25, 2015 06:41am

I missed 3 questions, it wont tell you which ones until the test closes but you can take a pretty good guess based on the rules it tells you to research. I know I missed the one about the weather, I missed another about a deflected ball and the third refered me to 10-2-3. The only other question on the test besides the weather that involved this section was:

Only the home plate umpire has the authority to enforce penalties restricting players and coaches to the dugout:

I answered false and apparently got the question wrong. I find it hard to believe this is reserved to only the plate umpire as he may have no knowledge of what a coach may have said to his partner.

Tru_in_Blu Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 956141)
MTD, I rarely disagree with you, but double check. Art. 6 references umpires and tobacco in the 2015 book.

I'll second that.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 25, 2015 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 956144)
Did you forget which board you're on? ;)


I knew what Forum I was in but I opened up the Baseball Rules Book without even thinking about it, :o. Junior was in the room with me studying for a Differential Equations exam and I even mentioned the discussion and that it was in the Softball Forum.

My wife and sons can't take me out in public anymore, :D. When ever we get to our game site the first think that Junior asks the AD is if his partner is already there, :eek:.

MTD, Sr.

CecilOne Wed Feb 25, 2015 04:53pm

NFHS:
The second sentence in 10-1 says "Any umpire" ... "player, coach or bench personnel" ... "enforce prescribed penalties"

10-1-5 includes "remove nonplayers"

That covers it. :rolleyes:

prab Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:38pm

[QUOTE=agr8zebra;956115]Only the home plate umpire has the authority to enforce penalties restricting players and coaches to the dugout.

This is question # 94 on the 2015 Part 1 Exam and the rule book is, shall we say, fuzzy on this. However, this is verbatim question # 93 from the 2007 Part 1 Exam and it was FALSE back then. I do not recall any rule changes in the intervening years that would have changed the answer to TRUE.

PATRICK Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:34pm

[QUOTE=prab;956527]
Quote:

Originally Posted by agr8zebra (Post 956115)
Only the home plate umpire has the authority to enforce penalties restricting players and coaches to the dugout.

This is question # 94 on the 2015 Part 1 Exam and the rule book is, shall we say, fuzzy on this. However, this is verbatim question # 93 from the 2007 Part 1 Exam and it was FALSE back then. I do not recall any rule changes in the intervening years that would have changed the answer to TRUE.

Am I the only one who saw the word restrict and read restrict?

It seems everyone else saw restrict/eject.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 956145)
I missed 3 questions, it wont tell you which ones until the test closes but you can take a pretty good guess based on the rules it tells you to research. I know I missed the one about the weather, I missed another about a deflected ball and the third refered me to 10-2-3. The only other question on the test besides the weather that involved this section was:

Only the home plate umpire has the authority to enforce penalties restricting players and coaches to the dugout:

I answered false and apparently got the question wrong. I find it hard to believe this is reserved to only the plate umpire as he may have no knowledge of what a coach may have said to his partner.

I took my NFHS test online earlier this week and also got 3 wrong. I didn't get any clue about which ones they might be because I didn't see anything about which rules to research. After our test date closes in about a month we can go view the results and which questions we got wrong.

I don't recall any questions about weather directly. Question 91 stated:
After the game starts, the umpires are sole judges as to whether conditions, including grounds, are fit for play.

Did you mix up "weather" and "whether"?

One tricky one I came across was:
The plate umpire shall ask each team's adult coach if their teams are legally and properly equipped, and remind participants that appropriate sporting behavior is expected throughout the contest.

The book says this responsibility is for head coaches. 4-1-2-d Are head coaches adult coaches? Probably. Are all adult coaches head coaches? Probably not. I put false. Don't know if that was a wrong response.

prab Thu Mar 05, 2015 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 957003)
One tricky one I came across was:
The plate umpire shall ask each team's adult coach if their teams are legally and properly equipped, and remind participants that appropriate sporting behavior is expected throughout the contest.

The book says this responsibility is for head coaches. 4-1-2-d Are head coaches adult coaches? Probably. Are all adult coaches head coaches? Probably not. I put false. Don't know if that was a wrong response.

I took my online test and we (Wisconsin) are given immediate feedback on which questions we got wrong. I answered this question FALSE for the same reason that you did and GOT IT WRONG!

CecilOne Thu Mar 05, 2015 01:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by prab (Post 957031)
I took my online test and we (Wisconsin) are given immediate feedback on which questions we got wrong. I answered this question FALSE for the same reason that you did and GOT IT WRONG!

They probably think head coaches are adults. :eek: :)

SNIPERBBB Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:39pm

A good question to the rule writers is who is "the umpire". All the rules reference for ejecting a coach specify "the umpire".

ART. 11 . . . Electronic devices may be used for coaching purposes during the course of the game.


ART. 12 . . . Tobacco products, in any form, are prohibited.
ART. 13 . . . Unsporting acts shall not be committed, including, but not limited to:

a. use of words or actions to incite or try to incite spectators to demonstrate.

b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, or baiting or taunting; or

NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any circumstances, including race, religion, gender or national origin.

c. behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

ART. 14 . . . Team personnel shall not charge an umpire.
ART. 15 . . . Arguing ball and strike calls or other umpire judgment calls is prohibited.
ART. 16 . . . Team personnel shall not deliberately throw bats, helmets or any other piece of equipment.

PENALTY: (Arts. 11 through 16) The umpire shall eject the offender from the game, unless the offense is judged to be of a minor nature. If minor, the umpire may warn the offender and eject if the offense is repeated. (Arts. 11, 13) For coaches who violate, the umpire may restrict the offender to bench/dugout for the remainder of the game, or eject the offender.

Moosie74 Fri Mar 06, 2015 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 957003)
I took my NFHS test online earlier this week and also got 3 wrong. I didn't get any clue about which ones they might be because I didn't see anything about which rules to research. After our test date closes in about a month we can go view the results and which questions we got wrong.

If you've taken the test already you're probably not one the lazy umpires Pierre was talking about! (this only makes sense if you were at the meeting!)


One tricky one I came across was:
The plate umpire shall ask each team's adult coach if their teams are legally and properly equipped, and remind participants that appropriate sporting behavior is expected throughout the contest.

The book says this responsibility is for head coaches. 4-1-2-d Are head coaches adult coaches? Probably. Are all adult coaches head coaches? Probably not. I put false. Don't know if that was a wrong response.

I think they are using adult coaches here for the scenario that for whatever reason the rostered head coach is unable to attend and his/her assistant is filling in until that person arrives. It eliminates having a captain from answering the questions and taking the responsibility.

CecilOne Fri Mar 06, 2015 04:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 957185)
I think they are using adult coaches here for the scenario that for whatever reason the rostered head coach is unable to attend and his/her assistant is filling in until that person arrives. It eliminates having a captain from answering the questions and taking the responsibility.

Not legal in NFHS.

Moosie74 Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:04am

What's not legal? If the head coach is not physically at the game site at the start time you can't require them to attend the conference.

By rule you are correct that if the assistant attends the pre-game meeting they are de facto head coach for that day but I have never seen a game where they didn't return that responsibility back to the rostered head coach and the umpires not allow that.

AtlUmpSteve Sat Mar 07, 2015 05:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 957217)
What's not legal? If the head coach is not physically at the game site at the start time you can't require them to attend the conference.

By rule you are correct that if the assistant attends the pre-game meeting they are de facto head coach for that day but I have never seen a game where they didn't return that responsibility back to the rostered head coach and the umpires not allow that.

This following quote from you is illegal in NFHS. A captain cannot do that; it must be an adult head coach that is employed by the school to legally "in loco parentis".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 957185)
It eliminates having a captain from answering the questions and taking the responsibility.

If there isn't an adult head coach (or acting head coach) available, you may not play the game until there is. In many states, that would be a forfeit.

chapmaja Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 957246)
This following quote from you is illegal in NFHS. A captain cannot do that; it must be an adult head coach that is employed by the school to legally "in loco parentis".



If there isn't an adult head coach (or acting head coach) available, you may not play the game until there is. In many states, that would be a forfeit.

In Michigan, at least the last time I checked, the regulations specify a school employee. This is more often witnessed when the coach of a team is ejected. There must be a school employee able to take control of the team. If a school employee is not present, the game becomes a forfeit.

I have never seen where a school employed coach has not arrived by the start of a contest in any sport I work at the school level. I've seen it many times in Rec ball though. We use a similar rule in Rec Ball, but are more lenient on their being a coach. Also, with the Rec League, there is a form a parent can fill out to be registered as a coach for a team. Since they are not paid for coaching, it's easier than with a school.

The interesting twist is many coaches (not regular school employees, ie teachers), are no longer actually employed by the school districts. We have many districts that have contracted out the coaching pay and benefits to private companies (also done with substitute teachers). They are not school employees (but under Michigan Law have the same responsibilities and protections in many cases).

PABlue Tue Mar 17, 2015 09:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 957217)
What's not legal? If the head coach is not physically at the game site at the start time you can't require them to attend the conference.

By rule you are correct that if the assistant attends the pre-game meeting they are de facto head coach for that day but I have never seen a game where they didn't return that responsibility back to the rostered head coach and the umpires not allow that.

If the head coach isn't there for the plate conference the coach who is there is now the head coach for that game. Legally they can't return responsibility to the "head coach" who missed the meeting.


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