Illegal pitch video.
 

I would be interested in feedback on this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNKG4B0GS94

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Rita

What kind of feed back are you looking for? Its a bunch of illegal pitchers, none apparently being called.

Wow, I'm a baseball guy but I think if I had just read one of the SB rule books or maybe attended a training session I might have gotten a few of these. But in baseball or softball if you are using guys or gals that have bought their blue shirts at Academy or Dicks it is what it is.

A couple of those are illegal even before the delivery starts- no separation of the hands while taking the signal.

Whoever spent all that time putting this video together obviously had some sort of agenda. I doubt if his agenda was to flog the coaches that teach their pitchers to pitch this way.

It's not illegal pitchers. Just pitchers throwing illegal pitches. :D

Seriously though, 2 and 3 and the last one are getting called every time. Are you saying you'd get all the rest of them? Every time? On a real field without a camera zoomed in and a hole to indicate that dragging must just be approximated those are not getting my left arm out. I just can't be sure and she probably leaped is not enough to get a call from me. The girl who in slow motion gets an inch off the ground and then starts dragging about 4 inches from the plate I can't imagine anybody is calling that.

Maybe I'm too conservative with my IP call, but I've never had anybody observing my game ask me why I didn't pick one up. (Could just be they have more important stuff to fix. ;-) )

Oh. I thought it was an illegal video about pitches.

This. The rest aren't getting called illegal on the field in realtime in any game I'm working, unless my partner is calling them. We don't work under the yoke of freeze-frame reviews. By the letter of the rule, yes, all of these may have been illegal pitches; by the intent, no.

That said, I long for the day when coaches teach legal pitching mechanics. It's getting better, but asking for 100% is asking for all of them to know the rules. Good luck on that.

See it, call it.

With that said, umpires cannot be so distracted by taking measurements with their micrometers that they miss what everyone else sees.

Again: this. I don't always agree with your posts, EsqUmp, but your micrometer comment made me laugh.

My IP Philosophy (rightly or wrongly): If it's blatant, call it. If it's obvious, call it. If it's a rules violation, bang 'em. If it's a Point of Emphasis that year in a league you work, go get it. But if you have to stare at it and think "is she off?" "is he getting an advantage?", leave it alone.

Anything IP related that is a mystery and distracts you from the rest of your game, let it go.

I can see the no call if you have to question "is she off". that shows you're not sure whether there was a violation. But the question of "is he/she getting an advantage" is not a valid consideration. That shows you're sure there was a violation and not sure of whether an advantage was gained. That thought is not relevant. When you are sure of the illegal pitch, call it.

For others reading, "intent" is irrelevant to the question of a violation or application of the rule.

The leap call best to be called by base umpire...if you think it is illegal call it...call it early in the game do not wait. The call most likely will fix it for the rest of the game.

When you have to slo-mo and freeze frame a video to see the illegal pitch, I am probably not going to call it in real time.

I'm in agreement with what has been posted to this point...there are only about two of those that I saw watching the real-time part of the video.

Even the last one...I can't tell where the Pitcher's Plate is in the video, so I don't know if she lands outside the 24 inch width.

It's probably a video made by a disgruntled coach, fan, dad, etc. that is DEMANDING that all of the illegal pitches be called....on the other teams pitchers!

Corrected that for you :)

Do any of you think this might be a good training video for umpires?

I've used it in the past, along with other videos, during a rules clinic. It generated some good discussions,much like those above.

The use of videos in clinics is a big help in keeping the attention of the participants and getting everybody 'on the same page'.

If you are training umpires for girls and womens fast pitch games, this video is probably better than the ones the NFHS put out a few years ago.

Just make sure that you point out what is illegal and how difficult it is to see in real time.

Absolutely, keeping in mind what is seen in real time can be very different in slow motion video. Some of these are obvious, especially at the end where the pitcher is outside the 24" pitchers plate.

This cannot be reiterated enough. The umpire needs to watch the pitcher, not search for a reason to call an IP. This happens when you show videos like this and tell the umpire these are IP and must be called.

I included the bit about "advantage" for exactly this reason. Blues who refuse to call obvious IPs because "they aren't gaining any advantage" are part of the headache for the rest of us. I should have been more clear about that. Call em like you see em.

My 3.5 cents.

The video has some educational value, but due to it's age, it is slightly outdated. The college pitchers has very much changed their style since the creation of this video (and may have as a direct effect of this video). The number of leapers are declining. In the smattering of games that I work (all divisions), I see more textbook draggers in comparison to 2010 (which was the big "crack-down" year).

However, what needs to be replaced is the final title card. None of the "big 3" recognize a "replant" as a pitching violation (I know, the definition of "crop hop" includes the word "replant").
Here is an extra penny: I believe it was a misunderstanding that lead to the phrase: "All leaps includes replants." The pitcher will land, but only to finish the pitch. The ISF recognized this and allows both men and women to leap.

And the extra half cent: I think there is way too much effort and concentration on being outside the 24". If the pitcher starts in the middle of the pitcher's plate, a female pitcher cannot be outside the 24" without leaping (which should be called). Bio-mechanically, it is impossible for someone under the height of 6'5" to drag and deliver a pitch with proper hip placement. However, she can be in violation if she starts on the end of the pitcher's plate. Way easier to concentrate if you see the pitcher slide to the side. The video very much demonstrates my theory.

Then how to you explain ASA 6(FP).3.J? "Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

Since the process cannot start without the pitcher's pivot foot in contact with the PP, to deliver the ball with the pivot foot not in contact with the PP means the pitcher had to "replant" that foot. There is nothing wrong or inaccurate in using the term "replant". If there is any problem, it is with people trying to make it more than it is

No, not at all. The videos we normally get to watch are far better than this, and illustrate actual IP's that we should be calling. Most of these, as you've seen from the comments, are so borderline that you've got to freeze-frame to catch them ... and we don't want to be calling those.

Is she? The pitchers plate that we can't actually see in the video?

Completely and utterly untrue. I would say that a 24" violation is very rare, especially from the middle. But it's not bio-mechanically impossible at all. We had one pitcher 2-3 years back that took advantage of local umpires who just refuse to call IP's and pitched in such a way that her whole body was left (from her POV) of the 24" lane when she release. As in ... almost a balk in baseball, she went so far toward the first base line.

And she started on the THIRD base side of the plate.

Got called for IP's on the first 5 consecutive pitches to begin her district tourney and was pulled, never to pitch again in that tourney.

Then she was a very rare individual who could throw a pitch with either a) her hips complete square to the plate or b) she pushed off with such force to drag the entire 24" of the pitcher's plate, not lose momentum, pivot (to close her hips) and release the pitch. Either way, she is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

Definitely agree she was the exception. a) she was definitely facing the batter ... if not left of the batter ... upon release. If you took a picture of her at the moment of release from home plate, she would appear to be facing you with her arm outstretched toward you. b) yup, but that part's not rare... the little drag marks most pitchers make are more than 2 feet long. c) she didn't close her hips - she was wide open (toward home) at the release.

It was a bizarre motion. I think she did lose momentum because of it. The other thing that was also illegal is that her arm was often out away from her body (wrist further than the elbow)... almost Kent Tekulve-ish. I bet she would have been pretty good without the odd motion. As it was, it was ONLY the odd motion that gave her any advantage - she wasn't all that fast, and her pitches, while strikes, were all hittable... once batters got used to the odd motion (which should have been IP'd in the first place), she got hit.

Of course she is! Please don't tell me you wouldn't call that?!