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jeopardy
Is this "jeopardy" in the umpires rule sense?
Runner on 1st, 2 outs. Batter takes an uncaught strike 3. Plate umpire, not thinking 2 outs, says "batter out". Catcher roll ball into infield while BR advances to 1st, other runner to 2nd. Is this a jeopardy for the defense which the umpire should rectify, or is this a case of the players (e.g., in this play the catcher) should know the rule? Please state which rules book if you think they differ. |
My opinion, catcher needs to know the situation. No way you can rightfully call that batter-runner out, as the defense simply hasn't put her out, in any rule set.
Similar situations. 1) If umpire tells a player the wrong number of outs, player's responsibility regardless. Too bad, they should get it from their scorekeeper. 2) If umpire called "Time" in the middle of playing action, instead of "batter's out", it's a dead ball, batter-runner awarded first. |
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I feel once the PU calls batter out he is saying the pitch was NOT in the dirt, so it's over at that point. Just like a ref. can't undo a play killed once he blows the whistle.
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Are you saying not to verbalize when that is the case? IOW, let the players figure it out for themselves? |
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Are you saying the mistaken "out" call can't be ignored? |
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That said, in your sitch I agree with the previous answers. |
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I would say batter's out in your situation. And might also in an unclear catch-no-catch by the catcher when I'm calling a catch. But not immediately after the pitch call - and usually while pointing to the catcher's glove. |
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Your original response included "My opinion, catcher needs to know the situation", which made me think you were saying no. That is, ignore the mistake and let the BR be safe. :confused: |
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You're confused because the misapplied rule here was the PU ruling the batter out. He is still saying the same thing. |
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My original question was whether this mistake by the PU should be rectified. IOW whether it qualifies under the jeopardy rule. That would mean, IF he could judge that IF the catcher had not been told an out, would she have tried a play at 1st and PROBABLY gotten the out. Notice - BIG IFs and a BIG reach by the ump to ASSUME an out if played at 1st are a separate question. |
Players and coaches should know the situation. Umpire has egg on his face and must suck it up.
Agree, better not to verbalize unless batter runs to first when she isn't supposed to. |
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Not to drive this into the ground...
The only time I've ever heard "Strike 3 batters out" has been on television show/commercial/movie umpires. Is it possible that the order of events was: U3K, batter runs, PU says, "batter out", F2 rolls ball? Then we have the PU giving bad game situation info, putting defense in jeopardy. And we can better debate whether it can be rectified. If the order of events in the OP is precise, then yes, bad mechanics, you shouldn't say that, AND bad game situation info. |
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But what you said a little further might be objectionable if I took it like this. Suppose the sequence was. "Strike three." Batter starts to run. "Batters out." Catcher tosses ball toward circle. "#@%@, two outs, batter is NOT OUT" Pitcher runs for the ball, barehands it toward first base and runner is safe on a bang bang play. versus "Strike three." Batter starts to run. "Batters out." Catcher tosses ball toward circle. Pitcher knowing the umpire was wrong runs for the ball, barehands it toward first base and runner is safe on a bang bang play. Then umpire says, dang, runner was not out. Whatever the right way to think about those two scenarios, the idea that the first is more clearly in favor of the defense seems absurd to me. |
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I think this is the consensus.
Definite mistake by PU to call an out when BR is eligible to run. Players (e.g., catcher) are responsible to know the rule and make the play anyway. No need to apply the jeopardy rule, even if ITUJ the defense would have gotten the out with a throw to 1st. BR remains safe at 1st. |
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Another point for consideration: Unless you're regularly working 12U rec ball, you will see that the overwhelming majority of catchers worth their salt will know to immediately come up with the throw after failing to catch the third strike with two outs. They won't be affected by a plate umpire erroneously calling the batter out. If one does, shame on her. |
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