Standing on field with hands on hips?
 

Evaluators: Time for a nit-picky between-innings mechanics question. Is it OK to stand with your hands on your hips between innings? (I know this is a fairly stupid question, but I'm curious to hear the wisdom of the masses on this innocuous detail.)

A partner of mine recently did this almost every inning. It was a fairly non-competitive game, and both teams and coaches were relaxed. He's got far more experience at high levels of play than I do, so it surprised me that he would do this, even at a game that "didn't matter".

One of the first mentors I ever had taught me early what to never ever do (arms folded, or hands in pockets). I find it impossible to stand with my arms at my side for any length of time, so I clasp my hands between innings or during breaks in play. On bases, parade-rest style behind me; on the plate, in front of me with mask under my elbow.

I would prefer the umpire not, but I think it depends on the entire body, not just where the hands are. If the posture is one which appears to be that the umpire just doesn't want to be there, yeah, that is something that should be addressed. Otherwise, I really don't care as a lot of people are like you who just cannot stand around without finding a place to put their hands. Many with a military background do as you and move to a parade rest set.

Teebob - what you describe is a BIG pet peeve of our state UIC. Body Language.

Standing with your hands on your hips can appear to look impatient and like you don't want to be there.

I've also been told that there are only two times during the course of game when people are looking at the umpires...when a call is made and between innings when there is nothing else to look at.

Thanks Irish and Andy. That basically confirms what I already thought.

I was doing a 12U championship years ago and was standing at the plate waiting for the conference to begin (with my hangs on my hips) when this tiny little girl comes up to me and says, "What's that, your Super Friends pose?"

Guess I'm old school to and still have a bit of the Army in me. Hands in pockets is a no-no. You'll seldom see me with my arms folded or hands on hips. I think it does indicate a certain detachment. Just one man's opinion.

I'm same way, but you need to remember, like many rules, this was probably something that was observed of an umpire and it immediately became a no-no. And like many rules, until adjusted, the affect runs over areas not meant to be involved.

I've often seen umpires standing around with their arms crossed or hands on hips, but there was a smile on their face. It was just the way they relaxed, just as many ex-military automatically go to a parade rest posture.

BTW, just a little clarification. I'm referring to between innings or inordinate delays, not during a live ball period.

I don't know where they come up with some of this stuff, but I've learned that I don't have to agree with them, I just have to do it their way if I want their games!

Funny that I started this thread...I worked a fall ball DH yesterday and for some reason I got TIRED. I caught myself putting my hands on my hips between pitches on my plate game, much like you'll see a winded football player do between snaps. I work plate with a Gerry Davis stance, so I started setting up way earlier than I usually do. That helped.

Funny, I see college coaches standing with their hands on their hips all the time and I don't think they're impatient or bored. I just assume it's their most comfortable standing position.

I was dinged once for having my hands on my hips. It was a hot day - I was just trying to get as much body exposed to the wind as possible for the cooling effect. I thought at the time that standing equally-weighted on both feet (that is, not slouching) was far more important to my appearance than my hands being on my waist. But that is me. And I don't put my hands on my hips any longer.

We don't get to judge them; they do get to judge what our body language (and anything else) means. At every level of softball, it is considered inappropriate, simply because it CAN be interpreted that way, even if not meant that way.

Of course, baseball pretty much lives with hands permanently attached to hips. :rolleyes:

We judge coaches all the time, at least many of us do. Our judgment on their preferred way of standing when at rest means no less than their judgment on ours - zero, IMO. The next time a coach comes out and comments about his/her perception of my posture, which will be the first BTW, I'll instruct him/her to take their perception and their a$$ back to the dugout.

It seems we have allowed the "perception is reality" concept to muddy our waters and have officials worrying about things other than what's important. Hammer heights, belt buckles, pleats, standing between innings,.....

Well, see, that is part of the problem, the coach isn't going to tell you.

Yeah, appearance is irrelevant to a professional presence. I remind my boss of that the next time we visit a customer and he wants everyone in a coat and tie and 30 minutes early. :)

You can put "hands on hips" into the same category as wearing sunglasses or chewing gum. Some people just don't like it and many of them happen to be evaluators. I call these "false perception." No one really cares, except the evaluator. It's not what you do, but when and how you do it. If your hands go on your hips only when the pitcher is taking extra time or when a coach comes out to question you, that's a problem. But if it is part of your pre-pitch mechanics or between inning mechanics, who really cares? I do it between pitches. It's relaxing, yet keeps me alert. I don't slouch when doing it. No coach has ever said anything about it. UICs have. Hence, false perception.

Then what is the point/problem? If a coaches perception of how I stand in between innings causes him/her to change the way they handle something that happens during play, I can and will deal with that appropriately.

Comparing softball officiating with a real job doesn't hold water IMO. I'm there to worry about the consequences of the softball rolling around on the field, not how a coach perceives my posture at rest.

I completely understand what you and Steve are saying about the way things are - I've dealt with it for years. I just wonder when softball officials became second class citizens to softball coaches and the "powers that be" decided to make us so.

The coach is going to complain to the UIC, assignor, AD, whatever authority will listen and who can affect future assignments

Are you accepting remuneration for your efforts? Have you not agreed to work under standards set by either the sanctioning body or association with whom that body has contracted your services? Do you not risk the loss of opportunity to continue should you fail or refuse to follow those rules and standards?

Sounds like a real job to me.

I worked an ASA national-level tournament (Men's SP Major) where the two teams set to play the championship game, along with the tournament reps approached the UIC (still a member of the NUS) and asked to have the umpire who was due to rotate to the plate to be moved to another position.

It had nothing to do with his skills. He was a good umpire, ISF certified with a Men's Super coming up the following month. From what I gathered, they didn't tell the UIC who they wanted on the game, just stated who they didn't want on the dish for that game.

The reason they asked for and were accommodated with a change was because he was so laid back, the teams did not believe he could appreciate the high competitive nature of that particular game.

I don't think there was an umpire there that believed he couldn't handle the game, but I also understand how the teams got that perception.

You just answered your own question.
The coach's perception of you will definitely affect the way he/she will handle communicating with you. It can be tough enough on a hotly contested call, but if coach perceives you to be bored, pompous or dismissive, it will make matters worse. Not to mention how your partners perceive you.

And the UIC or assignor should consider the validity of the coach's complaint. I don't expect that from an AD.

By "real job", I meant what one does for a living. While I know there are some out there officiating full time, I think they are a huge minority. My "real job" pays ~25 times what I earn officiating softball. It's safe to say that I'm considerably more willing to put up with ancillary BS from my superiors.

Then the UIC did a disservice to the umpire as well as the entire umpire community by allowing the teams' perception to change their assignment.

And my last 8 words address your point.

You're right, what we do can sometimes be tough. I believe we make it tougher by obsessing over things like a coach's perception of our stance in between innings.

No offense ... but if this is your opinion, please get off the field and let those of us who treat the profession as "real" work in your place. That comment is quite offensive, tbh.

The UIC did what was necessary for the customer and the organization he represented (ASA) in this case.

Respectfully disagree. And, as always, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation on this board. Here's a little background on why I started this thread.

I want to do all the little things that get noticed positively on-field, and eliminate all the little things that detract from my game in the eyes of an evaluator. I am lucky enough to work with some excellent umpires and UICs, but the usual response when I ask if they have anything for me (especially on bases) is "Nope, looked great." Grrrrrr! Thus, I come to this board and soak up knowledge where I can.

I have always approached amateur umpiring as a "real job". I started when I was 12 with YMCA baseball, and moved to JO FP softball at 15 because the pay was so much better ($16 a game vs. $5!). In a real job, the boss almost always has feedback for you. I got to where I am today by listening to feedback about my work whenever I could get it. At this point, pay is irrelevant. I want to work at the highest level of ball I possibly can, which means I need to get as good as I can. Period.

This means getting noticed by someone with connections, but I don't "play politics" within an organization. I can't be bothered to do so. It obviously puts me at a disadvantage versus someone who belongs to the good ol' boys club, so I have to make up for it on the field. Appearance and professionalism are extremely important to me, even when it is something as minor as how you stand during a lull in play. (Example: I grew my hair out long for a Locks of Love donation from 2010-2012 in support of a co-worker with a child with juvenile cancer. I chose not to umpire any level of ball during this time, as I did not meet my own level of professional on-field appearance. Also, even further off-topic, I have really terrible-looking long hair.)

teebob21 - You need to do as you're doing to try and impress those who can get you where you want to be. I did the same thing and used the prescribed criteria when evaluating. To play you must follow their rules.

I never meant to say that the standards aren't what they are. I question how much perception actually affects events during the course of a game and how much emphasis we're training umpires to put on perception. Yes, how you're perceived will cause coaches to approach you differently, but poor judgment, rules knowledge, or mechanics will adversely affect that perception much more than how you stand between innings. Now, which is more important if you're worried about perception?

You seem to be stuck on these being a distraction, but they should not be any more a distraction than any other mechanic or signal. The entire idea of training and practicing the "little" things is to make them a non-issue during a game.

Do you stop and think about your signals or positioning, or is it just second nature? Same with everything else.

The remuneration should have zero impact on how one approaches or treats the profession. I approach umpiring every bit as professionally as I do teaching. (Which, sadly, pays about the same as umpiring :D )

It seems this thread is all about priorities in more ways than one

Sorry guys, but how you are perceived is often the difference maker in evaluating umpires.

When you have a group of umpires that are all mechanically sound, know the rules and do the signals properly, there has to be a way to differentiate them to move to the next level or fill a finite number of assignments.

I once had a UIC tell me that he made decisions on what umpires received final day assignments at a national tournament by seeing who had cleaner shoelaces. A bit of an exaggeration, but the point is that he had too may outstanding umpires for too few assignments.

He had to use all of those "perception" items to make decisions.