"no new inning after xx"
 

Worked an ASA tournament this weekend where we had time limits of 90 minutes. That meant no new inning would start after 90 minutes.

Again, the question of when a new inning starts came up. I've always thought it was immediately following the third out of the home team's at bat. Similarly, I've used the third out of a half-inning as the starting point for the pitcher's 1 minute of warm up activity. I don't time it with a watch, but if the catcher or pitcher is dallying, I may not allow warm ups or tell them to take one and throw it down.

Through hearsay, one of our visiting umpires from New Brunswick asked about the point at which a new inning begins. He claims he was told it was as soon as the pitcher takes her position on the PP. This sounds wrong to me, so I tried looking it up in the umpires' manual. I couldn't find anything specific as to when a new inning starts.

Is there such a reference that I missed, or is there nothing in the book?

Thanx.

ASA rule 1, Inning.

A new inning begins immediately after the final out of the previous inning.

^ Yep, what he said. ^

Well, in retrospect, it was probably in the most conspicuous spot in the book.

I was looking in the sections about the game, pitching and the number of pitches allowed. Everywhere except in the definitions.

Thanx guys.

One thing I have learned about the rules...go to the definitions first.

This reminds me of a discussion I heard about at a clinic (I was not umpiring at that time).


There was a big discussion about a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box.

Everyone agreed the call is a foul ball. The argument was over where in the rules it said this, because they must all be wrong if they call it since it isn't in the book.

Finally, an out of state umpire who was attending chimed in. "Read the definition of a foul ball." Sure enough Rule 1 Foul Ball F (using the 2014 book) pretty much covers it.

I had a similar time limit issue last night. Rec League game, 2 hour time limit (Girls 5th grade). We were supposed to start at 6:30, but started at 6:33 instead. As time is clicking down we get to the bottom of the 5th inning. Strike 3, batter's out. just over 30 seconds left on the clock.

"Hey Blue, are we playing the 6th inning?"

I easily could have said no but since we started late and I do keep a countdown timer, I had to be honest and say yes we are playing the 6th. 20minutes later we were exactly where we started the 6th inning, the home team winning by 1.

Most timed games I work, if we start a little early (say, 5:56 for a 6:00 game), the "official" start time is the scheduled time. But if we start late, the actual start time becomes the "official" time. So in your game, the NNI time would have been 8:33, not 8:30, at least over here.

I must admit, I hate two-hour time limits for NNI. I much prefer something tolerable like NNI at 1:20, drop dead at 1:30. Two-plus hours of softball is excessive, especially at the 12U rec level, where I typically see those long limits.

At least we have one nice rule where I umpire. All grades through 4th grade for girls (3rd for boys) are coach pitch games.

For the fifth grade girls (and I think, but I'm not sure 4th grade boys), when the bases become loaded it reverts to coach pitch rules.

This keeps the games moving a little better than if we waited for 7 runs on bases on balls to score (we have a 7 run per inning rule) which would have happened last night.

Personally I think 2 hours is too long, and it shows on the players when 8:25 rolls around, they are about done at that point physically and mentally.

As much as I did not want to do it, (I had something else I should have gotten done by 9), I was honest and we played the inning. I just wish the batter had not swung on that last pitch. The way the catcher was throwing the ball back to the pitch, those last 30 seconds may have run off the clock before another pitch was thrown.

Excessive??? I would call it outrageous.

ASA needs to get their head out of the ass and eliminate the strategic bullshit that the coaches have brought to the game. They need to change any rule involving a time limit to time limit plus one inning. Yes, you change the time to 1:15-1:20, finish that inning plus one.

This is not new, it has been proposed before and it is time for it to be effected.

Shhhhhhhhhh in some places it is being done that way ........

Baseball has time limits, too, and some of the same BS around "working the clock."

Personally, I like tournaments where the umpire's watch is the clock.

It should simply be the umpire's discretion in situations where a team tries to make fast outs to play another inning or delay the game to make the clock run out. Just like soccer and stoppage time, which is at the discretion of the referee.

"One New Inning After" time limits are the way to go. It does eliminate most of the shenanigans.

I think that "no new inning after xx min" are stupid. The best is "drop dead after xx min". That keeps the games moving and on time.

MTD, Jr., and I, on too many occasions, have had the top of a new inning start just before the time limit with the Home team losing, and then have the new inning go as long as 15 minutes past the time limit.

MTD, Sr.

That works fine for pool games. But for games where the winner matters, having one team bat more than the other doesn't make any sense at all (and neither to "revert to the score from the previous inning" rules, for different reasons).

OMG, one of the worst ideas ever, use antiquity as a basis. :eek:

I agree with you regarding pool play games.

MTD, Sr.

It may keep them on time but if I'm on defense and up a run I'm stalling to get to the drop dead time before the other team can score. :D

Stalling can work on offense as well as defense. Granted, it's harder to stall on offense than on defense.

Rich:

As already stated, teams (both offense and defense) will attempt to stall, but we as umpires can eliminate most of it by good game management.

It just my opinion that a time limit without a drop-dead requirement really isn't a time limit.

MTD, Sr.

I agree, it wouldn't change the stall game

The problem becomes when a coach does something entirely legal, like when the defensive coach conducts multiple conferences in that last inning, the pitcher takes her full 20 seconds, or the offensive coach want to make lineup changes. As an umpire, there's not much you can do to stop that.

OK, not really hijack, just a tangent. :rolleyes: :)

In a timed game, what is your criteria/philosophy for when to stop the timer during play.
Don't say lightning or a helicopter on the field, but try for helpful. ;) :p

Does it ever include an obvious stall?

No, it doesn't include an obvious stall. No new after 90 means no new after 90.

If the "stall" is a legal use of the game rules, it is part of the 90 minutes. If one coach is arguing about a call, it is part of the 90 minutes. If there is a minor injury stoppage (not requiring outside medical attention, and not exceeding the "coach, either we play now, or you sub now" time frame), it is part of the 90 minutes.

If the "stall" is NOT a legal use of the game rules, there are other game rules that already apply (ASA 5.4-E, 5.4-F, 10.1), so why make up a new one?

No.

Calling for an ambulance. Possibly a protest situation where I've got to have someone find the UIC/TD and they aren't readily available. That's about all I can think of.

Another valid situation is when the grounds crew is called to fix a field.

True if the situation is such that there's going to be a significant delay in the game. But I've seen ground crews come on and off the field pretty quickly during conferences and between innings to fix something relatively minor. No need to stop the clock then.

I knew you would support my not stopping for legal stalls, but wanted to see if there is a non-supported school of thought.

The bold is what I was getting at and trying to see how subjective each of us is.

Few and far between around here. :D

I was observing umpires at a field.a few towns away where they're softball.score boards had balls strikes outs runs and a clock. Official time was kept there.

Home team in the tournament game had jumped out to an early lead but their pitcher started throwing meatballs and it felt like one more inning and the visitors would win. 5 minutes left until the no new inning rule kicks in...V down 4 top of 5. With 2 outs AND 2 strikes HC decides its time to bring F9 in to catch. 5 minutes evaporated. Batter lines out to F6, visiting team was out of at bats home team won and advanced. VC refused to shake HC hand and the TD had to step in to bring an end to their post-game "discussion"

Wow! that is some great eyesight you have there. You could get a job calibrating the Hubbell Telescope ;)

Completely unnecessary since the home team could have easily blown off five minutes, so being a jerk was irrelevant to the game ending or not.

Totally legal!

Anything that's legal on an untimed game is legal in a timed game.