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Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 936635)

Just don't call BR out if the ball simply hits her right off the catcher and she doesn't DO anything. I've seen umpires insist that because she happened to be where the ball went, she "interfered" because she altered the path of the ball.

Just like a thrown ball hitting a runner who had no intent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 936635)

Well, I would agree, but I do not believe ASA does. Even if the BR is moving away and the ball hits them as the catcher is trying to retrieve the ball, it is INT.

I proposed a rule change to include "intent" on the BRs behalf. Only problem was I picked the year that they dumped most of the rest of the "intent" references. Did not even get the support of the umpire committee.

Personally, I'm all for going back the original rule and the batter is out on strike three. End of story, no second chances.

I was looking into the origins of the D3K rule awhile back, and I recall it stemmed from the days way back when F2 was positioned further back & every pitch was caught on the bounce.
That and the theory that every batter-batter/runner must be retired on either a tag or a catch (so that even a K involves a catch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Which reminds me, saw this play recently.
R running from 1st, fly ball to RF, caught. F9 throws to 1st in time for the tag up out.
Tag made, runner's slide carries her into F3, ball comes out when they fall.
Out or safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 936605)

You didn't say, but did F3 tag the runner or the base?

The question you need to answer to yourself: Did F3 have control of the ball in her hand/glove when she made the tag? If so, then you have an out.

In your play, if F3 tagged the runner, and then the ball popped out on the fall, you could judge that F3 never had control of the ball at the time of the tag. It really depends how quickly things took place (tag, contact, fall, ball comes loose). Any discernable time between the tag and when the ball popped out of the glove, I would judge she controlled it during the tag.

Visible to the BU (straightlined by runner), tagged the runner, but probably both.

The issue became whether control for the runner tag was sufficient or whether the fielder had to maintain control for the duration of the play (runner's slide carries her into F3, ball comes out when they fall).

This was not a case of the fielder trying to throw, IOW not losing it on "the transfer".

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 936721)

The issue became whether control for the runner tag was sufficient or whether the fielder had to maintain control for the duration of the play (runner's slide carries her into F3, ball comes out when they fall).

The definition of Tag in most rule sets simply requires the fielder to securely hold the ball in the hand or glove while touching the runner or the base. There is no requirement to maintain the ball in the hand or glove and demonstrate a voluntary and intentional release after the tag.

Where it gets tricky is when the ball comes out of the hand or glove very shortly after the tag. If it happens nearly simultaneously, then you could judge that the fielder didn't securely hold the ball at the moment of the tag. But the bigger the gap in time between the tag and the drop, the more convincing it is to state the ball was securely held when the tag took place.