Batting Out of Order, Volume 2

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Hmmm... given just this scenario, by what rule are you putting B3 at the plate instead of B2? At the time of THIS appeal, B1 was the previous batter, and B2 is not on base.

I'll phrase the question this way: Can a legal batter be "illegalized" during her at bat? There is no doubt (at least to me) that B3 was legal when she came to bat. But does she become illegal the moment B2 scores (or is picked off, or steps off early, or whatever)?

Or, once she entered the batter's box legally is she entitled to stay?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RulesGeek

I'll phrase the question this way: Can a legal batter be "illegalized" during her at bat? There is no doubt (at least to me) that B3 was legal when she came to bat. But does she become illegal the moment B2 scores (or is picked off, or steps off early, or whatever)?

Or, once she entered the batter's box legally is she entitled to stay?

I think you mean the scenario where b2 bats for b1, b1 bats for b2, and then b3 comes up to bat. If so, NO B3 was not legal when she came to bat. The correct batter when b3 came to bat was b4. B1 had just batted out of order for b3 and since no pitch had been thrown, b4 was still the correct batter. B3 became the proper batter when she took a pitch because her name was the first name after the last proper batter (b1) who was not on base.

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by youngump

I think you mean the scenario where b2 bats for b1, b1 bats for b2, and then b3 comes up to bat. If so, NO B3 was not legal when she came to bat. The correct batter when b3 came to bat was b4. B1 had just batted out of order for b3 and since no pitch had been thrown, b4 was still the correct batter. B3 became the proper batter when she took a pitch because her name was the first name after the last proper batter (b1) who was not on base.

I mean ANY scenerio where the proper batter is on base and gets off the bases before the at bat is complete. That is the question asked by the OP in the abstract, without complicating it with names and numbers.

In your scenario I agree with your rulings.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RulesGeek

I mean ANY scenerio where the proper batter is on base and gets off the bases before the at bat is complete. That is the question asked by the OP in the abstract, without complicating it with names and numbers.

In your scenario I agree with your rulings.

My reply to you wasn't meant to touch on the general debate. It was meant to reply to this specific statement. "There is no doubt (at least to me) that B3 was legal when she came to bat." Which was not right. As for the abstract question, I'm pretty sure I've made it clear where I stand.

[MD Longhorn]

The "before they leave the infield" part is to cover the case where the wrong batter hits a walk-off OR the case (odd but possible) where they get the 3rd out on a play where the wrong batter had batted, and for whatever reason (possibly to save a run, possibly to put an advantageous hitter up first in the next inning) they want to appeal the BOO anyway.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The "before they leave the infield" part is to cover the case where the wrong batter hits a walk-off OR the case (odd but possible) where they get the 3rd out on a play where the wrong batter had batted, and for whatever reason (possibly to save a run, possibly to put an advantageous hitter up first in the next inning) they want to appeal the BOO anyway.

Yes but the rule says if appealed before A or B. What it means to say if it's before either of those things happen. But taken literally it was appealed before one of the two things happened. My point here was that the rules are poorly written and you don't want to hang too much on the finer points of their wording.

[vcblue]

Guys this is really simple. Once a pitch is thrown to B3, B1's time at bat is legal (ASA 7-2-3). Because B2 is on base at the time of the first pitch to B3, B2 is skipped in the Batting Order (7-2-4) and B3 is now the legal batter.

And, because she is the legal batter there can be no BOO. The bottom line... We have nothing. "Sorry DC you should have appealed before the first pitch to B3."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Because B2 is on base at the time of the first pitch to B3, B2 is skipped in the Batting Order (7-2-4)

But 7-2-4-D doesn't say that. It doesn't say anything about where the proper batter might be when the first pitch to the wrong batter happened. It STARTS with "If batting out of order is discovered:" The whole rule - all four sections - hinges on when BOO is discovered.