B/R Retreats Towards Home Playe

Spence

R2. Batter bunts. F3 fields bunt. Batter stops before being tagged. She then starts backpedaling to avoid being tagged.

Legal?

Dakota

No. ASA 8-2-H. NFHS 8-2-8.

Jake26

12.2.11 for NCAA

CecilOne

Spence wrote
R2. Batter bunts. F3 fields bunt. Batter stops before being tagged. She then starts backpedaling to avoid being tagged.

Legal?

Batter stops before being tagged. -- Legal

backpedaling to avoid being tagged. -- INT

charliej47

😀 Last year I called "TIME, That's interference!" I called the batter-runner out and put everyone back to the base they were on.

I later found out that I should have made them return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.🙁

Dakota

charliej47 wrote
...Last year I called "TIME, That's interference!"...(

Baseball?

Rich Ives

Dakota wrote
Baseball?

Legal in baseball. Only out if you retreat all the way to the plate.

Dakota

Rich Ives wrote
Legal in baseball. Only out if you retreat all the way to the plate.

I was referring to "TIME" instead of "DEAD BALL"! 🙂

chapmaja

IIRC this was called either last year or the year before in the CWS. The batter-runner was trying to gain extra time for the runners advancing, and took a step back. The umpire called it correctly, ruling her out and moving everyone back to the base occupied at the time she took the step backwards towards the plate to avoid the tag.

Jake26

chapmaja wrote
... moving everyone back to the base occupied at the time she took the step backwards towards the plate to avoid the tag.

Under NCAA Rules, the runners are moved back to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. (12.2.11 Effect) In the case of a run-and-bunt, the runner has quite possibly reached the next base at the time of the step backwards. I believe this ruling is unique to NCAA.

charliej47

Jake26 wrote
Under NCAA Rules, the runners are moved back to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. (12.2.11 Effect) In the case of a run-and-bunt, the runner has quite possibly reached the next base at the time of the step backwards. I believe this ruling is unique to NCAA.

😀 This is how I ruled. Even though I no longer do college softball, I will sometimes enforce their rules for ASA or high school. Lots of times my parner or the coach will inform me that I am applying the wrong rule fi they know the difference.:eek:

Manny A

Jake26 wrote
Under NCAA Rules, the runners are moved back to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. (12.2.11 Effect) In the case of a run-and-bunt, the runner has quite possibly reached the next base at the time of the step backwards. I believe this ruling is unique to NCAA.

Which is how it should be, and the other sanctioning bodies should follow suit. After all, the reason a BR would do this is to delay a play on her to let other runners advance. If one or more of those runners do make it to their next base(s) before the BR takes that step back, then the penalty doesn't really have the right effect.

Dakota

Manny A wrote
Which is how it should be, and the other sanctioning bodies should follow suit. After all, the reason a BR would do this is to delay a play on her to let other runners advance. If one or more of those runners do make it to their next base(s) before the BR takes that step back, then the penalty doesn't really have the right effect.

I never really understood why this action is illegal in the first place. In every other place on the field, the runner can choose whatever base path she wants... forward, backward, wide arcs, whatever.

I do understand that she cannot retreat to home as a "base", but why is it illegal to retreat as part of any other base-running strategy or purpose?

CecilOne

Manny A wrote
Which is how it should be, and the other sanctioning bodies should follow suit. After all, the reason a BR would do this is to delay a play on her to let other runners advance. If one or more of those runners do make it to their next base(s) before the BR takes that step back, then the penalty doesn't really have the right effect.

If the BR action does not help the runner to reach a base ( to their next base(s) before the BR takes that step ); then why should the runner be penalized back to an earlier base?

Manny A

CecilOne wrote
If the BR action does not help the runner to reach a base ( to their next base(s) before the BR takes that step ); then why should the runner be penalized back to an earlier base?

Ummm, you know what? I didn't even think of it that way.

You're right, the NCAA has it all wrong. :o:p

UmpireErnie

Dakota wrote
I never really understood why this action is illegal in the first place. In every other place on the field, the runner can choose whatever base path she wants... forward, backward, wide arcs, whatever.

I do understand that she cannot retreat to home as a "base", but why is it illegal to retreat as part of any other base-running strategy or purpose?

Between home and 1B there is no safe place for BR to retreat to. She can't go back and stand on home plate to avoid being put out. 😀

jmkupka

Nor can she retreat to safe haven at 1B (if forced), but there's no rule preventing her from stepping back from a tag between 1st & 2nd, even if forced.

AtlUmpSteve

UmpireErnie wrote
Between home and 1B there is no safe place for BR to retreat to. She can't go back and stand on home plate to avoid being put out. 😃

jmkupka wrote
Nor can she retreat to safe haven at 1B (if forced), but there's no rule preventing her from stepping back from a tag between 1st & 2nd, even if forced.

While I generally agree this isn't a good rule, and it sure as hell isn't interference (in my opinion) to simply delay an apparent out for a strategic advantage, there is a key difference between these cases. It isn't EVER possible for a BR to be safe back at home; but it IS possible a foolish defense can misplay a retreat to 1st by removing the force.

Dakota

Dakota wrote
I never really understood why this action is illegal in the first place. In every other place on the field, the runner can choose whatever base path she wants... forward, backward, wide arcs, whatever.

I do understand that she cannot retreat to home as a "base", but why is it illegal to retreat as part of any other base-running strategy or purpose?

UmpireErnie wrote
Between home and 1B there is no safe place for BR to retreat to. She can't go back and stand on home plate to avoid being put out. 😃

Hmmm... I thought I said that... 😉

AtlUmpSteve wrote
While I generally agree this isn't a good rule, and it sure as hell isn't interference (in my opinion) to simply delay an apparent out for a strategic advantage, there is a key difference between these cases. It isn't EVER possible for a BR to be safe back at home; but it IS possible a foolish defense can misplay a retreat to 1st by removing the force.

A valid base-running move is for a runner between 1B and 2B to attempt to get caught between bases to attract the defense and allow a runner from 3B to score. She has no intent to advance or retreat to any base. It is basically a sacrifice. Why is the same maneuver illegal between home and 1B?

Manny A

UmpireErnie wrote
Between home and 1B there is no safe place for BR to retreat to. She can't go back and stand on home plate to avoid being put out. 😃

Which is why, in baseball, a BR who retreats (legally, I might add) back toward home to avoid the tag is ruled out when he reaches the plate.

I also agree with others that I find no logical basis for ruling Interference on this play. For whatever reason, softball sanctioning bodies feel this situation is a special case that doesn't apply between any other bases. Fine. But rather than ruling it Interference, why not just rule it similar to a three-foot violation, call the BR out, and leave the ball Live to make plays on other runners? If this is really Interference, then all similar acts (e.g., the aforementioned three-foot violation) should be treated as Interference as well.