Annoyed...
 

JV game... quality programs having down year. Coach "A" is calling time and questioning every judgment call. The fifth (yes fifth) time he came out to question a call of "safe" or "out" I stopped him as he started to complain and told him if he didn't have a question about a rule or an appeal we were going to play ball. He started up again and I walked away and called "Play ball" . He was not happy with me... what would you do?

I'd remind him that, while I do have high tolerance for hearing coach's questions, complaining about judgment calls is against the rules. Then I'd walk away.

I would then eject the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct if the action repeated itself again. From the OP it sounds like he was given ample opportunity to follow the rules, and eventually he gave himself enough rope to hang himself so to speak.

The problem is that you let it get to five. FIVE?!?! :) Wow.

The first time, if he's polite, he gets his rope and uses it up. If you didn't feel the need to tell him we aren't going to discuss judgement calls at the end of that, then a QUICK stop sign at the BEGINNING of the 2nd time out gets him that speech. Not the 3rd... not the 4th.... not the 5th.

Too much rope. FAR too much.

And after you said what you said, and he started up... toss him.

Can't disagree... but our "policy" from the Commissioner is to not irritate the coaches who act like that because we are afraid that our "rival" association will swoop in and take our contracts.
ie... when he asks you to "go for help" ... you go--even on judgment calls...you don't have to change a thing, but you do cater to the nonsense.

Tell us you're kidding.

If the commissioner has a problem, give him/her your indicator and head for the cooler :)

amen to that

Sadly, this is how things work with assignors now. I know personally being that I assign in a different sport for local high schools that we face pressure from other assignors and associations every year. New groups try to step up and take over what an established group is doing. They always think they can do it better, so they persuade schools and conferences to change assignors/associations. It has become big business for the assignors. I am a small time assignor, but I still am making decent money assigning game officials. I know some assignors that make $2 or $3 per game and assign for 100 schools. If those schools all have 10 home games a season, the money adds up quickly to the tune of several thousand dollars in revenue for the assignor.

Wish I was...

My sentiments exactly.

DRJ1960: stick to the book. Period. If your commissioner has a problem with that, then let him know you will happily go to work for one of the organizations who are moving in on his territory. Maybe then he would see it your way.

I work for that "rival" association. Please, please, please take our esteemed colleagues advice, and umpire like you know you should. LOL! ;):rolleyes::D

Those that get the work should be those that offer the best product, period.
Earn your keep, don't beg, bend and stoop to earn your keep, IMHO.

Evil, evil man....:eek:

It's one thing when the inmates run the asylum. It's entirely another thing when the asylum's director not only encourages it, but tells the staff to allow it.

Your commissioner needs to step down. He's putting contracts ahead of quality officiating.

Yes, I am! :eek:

Depending on the league, expectations may be for low cost rather than high skill, so he may be serving the needs of his league very well.

Than maybe they shouldn't be using umpires. Sell them a handful of indicators and suggest they work their own games.

Perhaps, but most fastpitch leagues and most summer tournaments here in MN recognize that they get higher quality officiating with 2 umpire crews, but they choose to accept the limitations of a single umpire to save the money. I may disagree with their priorities, but it is their money and their games.

Does it matter to any of you if the discussions were about different things, e.g., banger at 2nd, why an IP, why an OBS, etc.?

It depends. But in the OP, the coach was questioning "safe/out" judgment calls, not any rule interpretations.

I say it depends because I might entertain two or three rule questions from the same coach if he/she is cordial while asking. But after that, I'm going to warn the coach that this is a game, not a rules clinic, and that if he/she doesn't understand why certain rulings were made, he/she needs to take the time to open the rule book and learn.

And that's probably during a game in a rec league. High school JV? Those coaches should know better.

As for judgment calls like the banger, the coach may get away with one or two asks.

It might, at least on a couple of those. Banger at 2nd is no different from any other judgement call...

If someone is really asking me "Why was that illegal" or "What did you see that made that obstruction", it's not an issue... but that's really completely different than coming out complaining or yelling that it wasn't illegal or it wasn't obstruction.

No rules type questions... all safes/outs that he didn't like

I worked a recent slow pitch game w/ a partner on the bases.

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Batter hits a slow ground ball up the middle that the pitcher missed. F4 & F6 begin to converge on the ball. I started up the 3rd base line and not expecting a throw to third, drifted to the holding zone.

Base umpire who was playing off F4's left shoulder to being with ended up calling the runner safe @ second. When I was looking at it from 100' away, it appeared that F6 had actually fielded the ball and managed to step on the base before the runner did. But there was a tangle of legs with 3 players around the base.

Defense came to me (of course) to ask for "an appeal" so I told them the BU made the call and they should ask him if he would/could check w/ his partner. The player, while walking back towards me, said "Yeah, he said we could check w/ you."

At this point I motioned for him to approach me and we discussed. I asked what he saw. During the live ball, it appeared that the runner had come off the base (I assume he thought he was out, despite a safe call). So I asked my partner if he saw the runner off the base after the call. He said yes. I asked if the defender was still standing on the base in possession of the ball. He said he thought so. Incandescent bulbs turn on instantly, while the flourescent bulbs take a bit longer.

A couple of innings later between innings, he tried to ask be about fielders having "dual possession" of the ball. I had no idea where this was going, and simply told him that only 1 fielder could possess the ball. Maybe in football or basketball there can be dual possession, but we weren't going to have a jump ball @ second base.

Second game, I'm on the bases. Two runners on and the batter hits a line drive to left field. As I'm coming inside, my runner @ first is already a third of the way to second base, so I take a peek at the ball. Visually, it appeared to hit the crossbar of the top of th fence, which is covered with that yellow plastic drainage pipe stuff. But to me, the deciding factor was the CONK! and the ball bouncing directly back onto the field. Partner calls it a home run. Our league decided that they like to run out their HRs, so I follow BR around towards third.

Of course, the defense is now asking for him to check w/ his partner again. At least this time, he approached me properly. He asks what I saw, and I told him. He claims he saw the netting over the fence move first and decides to stay w/ the HR call.

This umpire is in his 4th or 5th year now. Yup, I'm annoyed.

"Incandescent bulbs turn on instantly, while the fluorescent bulbs take a bit longer."


I like that! Let's hope we are incandescent.

I'm a little lost here. You're saying that after you got him to conference with you about whether F6 possessed the ball while touching the bag before the runner arrived that you instead discussed whether the runner left the base while the fielder was standing on the base (though presumably without a tag, you'd have nothing there.) When all these lightbulbs were turning on what ended up coming out of that play and who had to be ejected?

I read it the way you did as well. That whole paragraph made no sense to me.

Runner came off second base in the direction of first base, thus reinstating the force out?

You are correct, sir.

No ejections. I think the runner from first had an idea he was out. Perhaps he didn't hear the safe call and started toward the dugout. The whole matter was handled without a lot of yelling or high emotions. It was the player/coach who was the runner on first, so he had the best view of anyone.