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-   -   From an association quiz (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/97790-association-quiz.html)

MD Longhorn Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 932490)
I wondered if anyone else was considering that.

I certainly hope that was not a test consideration. :eek:

I'm kind of bothered that it was a test question ... if it actually was.

Just
Quote:

R1 on 2nd, R2 on first, 1 out, B4 hits a high pop fly that lands in foul territory between home and first base then kicks (untouched) into fair territory. F2 fields the ball and throws to F3 who tags R2 as they are standing off the base.
on it's own ... what's the question?

CecilOne Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 932494)
I'm kind of bothered that it was a test question ... if it actually was.

Just on it's own ... what's the question?

Well, the OP said "How would you rule. ", presumably what the test said.

Dakota Wed Apr 23, 2014 01:01pm

I obviously don't know how the test question was presented, but I like the situation presented as part of a test and/or discussion question. It has a number of interesting aspects that could drive how a multiple choice question is completed or how a discussion could proceed.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Apr 23, 2014 07:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 932470)
Double play whether called or not.....

If we don't call an in field fly on a ball hit above the shortstop in this scenario,

we would still have a dp.....this scenario is no different....

That would be incorrect

chapmaja Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 932529)
That would be incorrect

How would it be incorrect?

Multiple Sports Thu Apr 24, 2014 01:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 932529)
That would be incorrect

IM -

Please explain your logic....

The ball is a fair ball when it is touched. If runners that are on base, make the IF rule applicable, then the rule must be enforced. Runners advance at their own
risk. They run get tagged out = double play ( two outs )....

Am I missing something.....

Multiple Sports Thu Apr 24, 2014 01:10am

Can an administrator also put this on the baseball site with an explanation as to why it was added.

Am curious what fed baseball guys would have....

NavyChiefBlue Thu Apr 24, 2014 02:08pm

Ifr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 932564)
Can an administrator also put this on the baseball site with an explanation as to why it was added.

Am curious what fed baseball guys would have....

As a baseball guy, I would have 2 outs. IFR does not need to be called, if it is great, if not, sorry, but the situation still warrants it. Runners need to know the rules as well.

Have a great day!

STRIKES AND OUTS!!!

andyump Thu Apr 24, 2014 02:52pm

i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

MD Longhorn Thu Apr 24, 2014 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyump (Post 932606)
i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

While this might not apply to the OP, the advice you're being given is wrong (from the top).

Better scenario to illustrate this:

Runners on 1st and 2nd. Typical infield fly to the pitcher, but for whatever reason, not called. Ball drops. F1 picks up, throws to third, F5 throws to 2nd. Double play, because the umps screwed up putting the offense in jeopardy.

This is EXACTLY the scenario where the umpire MUST fix it, call the batter out, and put the runners back on bases.

nopachunts Thu Apr 24, 2014 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 932608)
Better scenario to illustrate this: Runners on 1st and 2nd. Typical infield fly to the pitcher, but for whatever reason, not called. Ball drops. F1 picks up, throws to third, F5 throws to 2nd. Double play, because the umps screwed up putting the offense in jeopardy.
This is EXACTLY the scenario where the umpire MUST fix it, call the batter out, and put the runners back on bases.

This is from a baseball game and I know this is the softball side.
This is a scenario that I saw last Friday in a 3A baseball game. The umpires were not from our chapter, thankfully.

Bases loaded, 1 out. Batter hits a high pop up, PU signals IFF, pop fly lands in fair territory about 4' in front of the edge of the infield and rolls across the 1B line, fair ball. As soon as the ball hits the ground, Runner from 3B leaves to score. F3 picks up the ball. The runner on 2B tries to run to 3B but the coach sends him back. While the runner is returning to 2B, F3 throws the ball to F6 covering 2B. F6 catches the throw and touches the base, not the runner. BU calls the runner out for the third out.

I was livid. I don't know how the offensive HC didn't get thrown out. At least the umpires scored the run. These umpires didn't know they had something that needed to be fixed.

CecilOne Thu Apr 24, 2014 06:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyump (Post 932606)
i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

Buy him/her a rule book. :o

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 24, 2014 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 932563)
IM -

Please explain your logic....

The ball is a fair ball when it is touched. If runners that are on base, make the IF rule applicable, then the rule must be enforced. Runners advance at their own
risk. They run get tagged out = double play ( two outs )....

Am I missing something.....

The failure of the umpire to make the ruling in a timely manner placed the runner in jeopardy.

andyump Thu Apr 24, 2014 07:12pm

If anyone is a nysso ump they would know in the Manuel on page 41 it states
If the batted ball lands uncaught and the umpires failed to declare an infield fly, the umpires shall not declare and infield fly
Rationale to call infield fly so late would lead. To further confusion
THis is. Nys interpretation not ASA

Little Jimmy Thu Apr 24, 2014 08:33pm

Rule 8-2-9 note and casebook 2.30 B ruling seem told support all outs on this play. What rule trumps these?


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