Bases loaded walk

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Yes I can, but I didn't in the first post to give everbody time to think. Handling the ball with detached equipment is a live ball award.

I disagree. That is an exemption from liability to be put out, not an award.

And making it an award would preclude the runner from returning to touch a missed base or base left too soon

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I disagree. That is an exemption from liability to be put out, not an award.

Since award isn't defined by rule I guess you you could make that claim but I'm not sure what the difference would be. The rule for a dropped third strike that is fielded with detached equipment specifically refers to to an award of first base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Since award isn't defined by rule I guess you you could make that claim but I'm not sure what the difference would be. The rule for a dropped third strike that is fielded with detached equipment specifically refers to to an award of first base.

Okay, if you insist, but how can you make an award if the BR is permitted to continue beyond that base? Awards are applied at the end of a play, not during. When there is a fielder who uses detached equipment, do you make a DDB signal and announce the base to which the runner/BR is "awarded" or do you let the play finish and then ensure the runners achieve or are awarded the appropriate number of bases.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, if you insist, but how can you make an award if the BR is permitted to continue beyond that base? Awards are applied at the end of a play, not during. When there is a fielder who uses detached equipment, do you make a DDB signal and announce the base to which the runner/BR is "awarded" or do you let the play finish and then ensure the runners achieve or are awarded the appropriate number of bases.

Well, first I've never seen it. Second, if I was trained on the correct mechanic I don't remember, but here's how I've imagined I would do it. I'd make a ddb signal, call out illegal, and then an appropriate award signal and then I'd sit back and enjoy the chaos.
But yeah, I'm not about to claim that I know that to be correct.

You seem to be making the claim that their can't be live ball awards and therefore this can't be a live ball award. But a walk is a live ball award and it doesn't engender the problems you're concerned about so I'm not sure why this would be the case.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

Well, first I've never seen it. Second, if I was trained on the correct mechanic I don't remember, but here's how I've imagined I would do it. I'd make a ddb signal, call out illegal, and then an appropriate award signal and then I'd sit back and enjoy the chaos.
But yeah, I'm not about to claim that I know that to be correct.

You seem to be making the claim that their can't be live ball awards and therefore this can't be a live ball award. But a walk is a live ball award and it doesn't engender the problems you're concerned about so I'm not sure why this would be the case.

With the DDB signal, you announce there will be a dead ball at the end of the play. At that point you announce any awards, which may be impacted by the actual result of the play (hence, you cannot announce them before the play ends).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Well, first I've never seen it. Second, if I was trained on the correct mechanic I don't remember, but here's how I've imagined I would do it. I'd make a ddb signal, call out illegal, and then an appropriate award signal and then I'd sit back and enjoy the chaos.
But yeah, I'm not about to claim that I know that to be correct.

Yeah, I can see where announcing "illegal" may cause chaos since it is not appropriate.

You seem to be making the claim that their can't be live ball awards and therefore this can't be a live ball award. But a walk is a live ball award and it doesn't engender the problems you're concerned about so I'm not sure why this would be the case.

Which is exactly where we were when I agreed with Dakota and the follow-up by MD Longhorn.

[EricH]

Where are we coming up with the idea that we must allow runners to complete their running responsibilities during a LIVE ball appeal? This is included in DEAD ball appeals to preclude the defense from requesting time to PREVENT the runners from correcting running mistakes. This does not apply during a live ball appeal. Otherwise, any runner leaving early could just trot back to the base he left, even if a defensive player was standing on the base with the ball, as long as the ball remained live.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EricH

Where are we coming up with the idea that we must allow runners to complete their running responsibilities during a LIVE ball appeal? This is included in DEAD ball appeals to preclude the defense from requesting time to PREVENT the runners from correcting running mistakes. This does not apply during a live ball appeal. Otherwise, any runner leaving early could just trot back to the base he left, even if a defensive player was standing on the base with the ball, as long as the ball remained live.

By rule, allowing runners to complete base-running responsibilities only comes into play for Dead Ball appeals due to the ball going into DBT. At least that's what it says under NFHS 2-1-3-b-2, USA Rule Supplement 1-C-2, and NCAA 7.1.2.2.3. There is no such thing as a base-running responsibility that can be corrected and not be subject to a live ball appeal.