Fan distracting players
 

In a high school game, a parent sitting behind the backstop is calling out to each batter where the catcher is setting up for each pitch. Fans from the opposing team start yelling at this person to stop. Should the umpire stop the game and address this situation?

If you consider it coaching from out of dugout, yes.
If it is affecting the players/game, probably.
If it is inflammatory, yes.

Go to the head coach of the offensive team and tell him his "coach" needs to be in the dugout or stop.

Handle these by involving game management to intervene with the fans.

I do not care! Is the fan threatening you, your partner, or any participant in the game with violence? No. Forget it and keep the game moving.

MTD, Sr.

Except that it's illegal for a coach to be coaching from there.

" Fans from the opposing team start yelling at this person to stop"
Do you really want to umpire and think the game will keep moving properly with that going on? :eek:

What rule do you use to support this? They aren't team personnel. Only team personnel have to stay in the dugout no?

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I do a lot more ASA games than I do NFHS games.

That said, I think it would be easier to address on the HS level because of the game managers that are typically on site. My first conversation would be with the coach of the offending team.

The rules don't allow for players or coaches to be behind the backstop. If a parent/fan is being obnoxious, I'd ask the coach to address the behavior.

I understand that there's likely to be a split of opinion about what umpires should or should not do in these instances.

A well coached team could find ways around this. Of course all of this assumes that a pitcher can actually hit the target that the catcher is calling for. I know you've all done games where the pitcher isn't in the same zip code. In any case, a few faux outside targets that result in a bit of chin music will quickly put the parent's calls of pitch location in question. Again, assuming the pitcher actually has that kind of control.

I'll say I've had more issues w/ ASA games than HS games. I've only tried addressing issues on the other side of the fence a few times. One time my partner and I were discussing potential strategies between innings. The catcher must have overheard part of the conversation because on the next close pitch, our heckler started in again only to have the catcher turn toward the fence and yell out "Dad! Shut UP!" Now there's a catcher that knows how to call a game! ;)

If you consider it coaching

Since when is a fan (in this case a parent) a coach. Do not go looking for problems that do not exist.

MTD, Sr.

Had this exact issue in a HS game last year. I just turned to the parent and asked them to stop. They did. No issue.

If your State Association does not recognize that person as a coach, you don't have the authority to make their comments "coaching".

In my state, that person is not allowed in the team area, nor on the field. That makes him a fan, not a coach, and not subject to coaching restrictions. :(

Gotcha.

Does your area have any kind of 'game management' present? Around here, schools are supposed to have some kind of personnel present to help out in situations like this. Here, I would go to the coach and them to get that person(s), and have them that those people need to follow the NYS Sportsmanship Rule - which includes spectators as well as players and coaches. If they persist, we then can have the game management to remove those people.

I actually had something like that twice this last volleyball season. Was working junior high level ball, when the visiting coaches came to me during the warm ups, and said a group of boys were making remarks to her players. Since we were in warm ups, I went right to the local game management - one an asst. principal, one an AD, and things got settled REAL quick. :p

The point is that it is not your job to enforce things like that, but the host school. If they do NOT provide that proper and sporting setting, then as an official have the ultimate option of not playing if you think it is not conducive for fair play. But it will never go that far - hopefully, especially not in this game.

And in mine they don't want any coaching going on from behind the catcher - from either team.

Restrict them to the top row of the bleachers behind the crying child, this is the best penalty!

To the original poster though, quietly say to him, sir, I need you to return to your bench Oh sorry, I'm not a coach. Ok, well, then do me a favor just enjoy the game and let the coaches coach.

Quick, easy and no one is heated up

Ladies and gentlemen! Why do so many of you want to go picking boogers and looking for problems where non exist.

I have officiated H.S. and college basketball for 44 years and H.S. soccer for 13 years, and umpired H.S. baseball and fast pitch softball umpire for 22 years.

I have been a basketball interpreter and instruction chairman and I have always taught new officials that are to ignore fans 99.999,999% of the time. The only time officials need to concern themselves with a fan's conduct is when a fan comes out onto the court or playing field, the fan physically attacks a participant, coach, or game official, or the fan threatens a participant, coach, or game official with physical violence.

I do not care that the parent (who is only a fan) is telling his child (or his child's teammates) what the catcher is doing. It is not the official's concern. That parent/fan paid his money and if he wants to shout instructions to his child or his child's teammates, that is his right.

An official who attempts to quiet a parent/fan will find no rules support. Game officials have more important things to concern himself with that parents/fans that are yelling instructions to their children.

With apologies to Nike: JUST DON'T DO IT!!

MTD, Sr.

• Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach or team member or associate to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of the rules and enforcing the prescribed penalties.
• Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in the rules. Each umpire will use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning based on the spirit of fair play when making rulings.


The short answer is this: Do what you think is right for the particular situation. There are a million scenarios and thousands of umpires. Don't let things escalate, but don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong either.

"Never" and "Always" umpires are afraid to use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning; so, they either always do something or never do something. Evaluate the situation and address is in a manner you find appropriate for your particular case.

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

You have to admit that the ability to give players instruction from right there behind the plate is an advantage - I completely understand the desire to prevent that.

We were a UIL Chapter the last couple of years. While we were thankfully spared the monumental waste of time that is a TASO clinic, the softball board did communicate with us from time to time. I wasn't sure where the "no giving instructions from behind the backstop" came from.

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

I'm not sure the rules prohibit a coach on the field from telling a batter where the catcher is set up, much less someone in the stands. If pushing and shoving happens in the stands, it is a site administrator issue, not an umpire issue.

No, not at all.

That's a different situation than the OP. If it can be proven that a "real" coach is behind the backstop, that is certainly an issue to be dealt with using the rule book.

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

While there may be no specific rule in our book(s), we've been given the following mandate from the New Hampshire Interscholastic A.A.

"The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let this competition reflect mutual respect among all participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules."

While the above gives officials no specific responsibilities as to what goes on outside the confines of the field, sportsmanship relating to the game can be addressed by either the coach(es) and/or game managers.

I believe in most cases, simply asking an offending party to cease doing what he/she is doing will suffice. Certainly, the rare exception will occur but in 5 years that I've been working HS ball, I haven't seen it. Hope it stays that way.

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

Well said.

MTD, Sr.

IMHO, the fans from the other team are the ones creating the problem.

But as was said, it's not my problem.

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

Both well said, different parts of the same considerations.

Manny:

If you are worried about the 1% (fan/parent) shouting instructions to his child/player affecting what the catcher is doing then two things are happening: (1) You are listening to stuff that does not concern you or the players. And (2) if what the fan/parent of her opponent is doing is distracting her from doing her job then she does not have her head in the game and her coach needs to either tell her to get her head into the game or replace her.

MTD, Sr.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, Mark. I'm not talking about the situation in the OP. I'm talking about situations where I judge they will escalate.

But let's take the OP. If a parent is instructing batters where the catcher is setting up, that's not something I will be concerned about. But as things start getting hairier because opposing parents are shouting at him/her and, in turn, I see the players and coaches getting upset, are you really suggesting I should still do nothing about it?

Sorry, I'm not going to allow things on the field to deteriorate because some pinhead in the stands can't behave. I would hope that somebody responsible for taking care of the problem would nip things in the bud right away. But I've seen those "responsible" people sit by and do nothing because they are oblivious to the problem, or they are too timid to take action. I'll get his/her attention and tell him/her, "Hey, you need to do the right thing here before the game goes to hell."

That's only happened to me a couple of times. In one case, there was a collision at home that I felt was not malicious, so I ruled the runner out but did not eject. A parent (I assume the catcher's dad) went nuts. He was adamant that the runner should have been tossed, and berated her, her coaches, and me. Initially I ignored his dumb @$$, but then one of the coaches from the runner's team started yelling back at him to shut up. The AD at the game was sitting in his golf cart next to the concession stand, totally ignoring the situation. I got his attention quick and asked him to take care of things quick.

That's the 1% I'm talking about.

If people shouting in the stands is affecting what is happening on the field, maybe those affected shouldn't be on the field to start as they are the ones choosing to be affected.

And for all you folks who want to talk about Lil' Susie getting upset and crying or whatever other psuedocatastrophic events which may be taking place, this is where a coach and parent need to be coaches and parents and use the situation as a teaching moment.

What a minute, what the **** is wrong with me? Expecting adults to act like adults and parents acting as responsible parents, I must be out of my mind to think something like that could occur at a ballpark or anywhere, for that matter.

No. You won't. However, it is the UIL, and not TASO or LHSSOA who decide how rules are to be applied in this state. The official's organizations are merely the mouthpieces.

In the OP, this would strictly be a game administrator's issue, IMO. That is why, at least in this state, they are required to be present for every varsity match and recommended for all sub-varsity games.