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-   -   Fed question#1, choke up device (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/97257-fed-question-1-choke-up-device.html)

Little Jimmy Wed Feb 12, 2014 07:46pm

Fed question#1, choke up device
 
Local meeting discussion. Bats are checked before game. All are fine. Somewhere in the game, a batter approaches the plate with a choke up device on the bat. Is it an altered bat? Some at our local meeting said it was, but the altered bat definition speaks of a structural change. The structure of the bat wasn't changed was it? Do we simply say to the batter that it can't be used? By the way, Fed website shows 1-5-2A with choke up device mentioned in last sentence. Paper rulebook doesn't mention the word choke up device in 1-5-2A.

CecilOne Wed Feb 12, 2014 07:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy (Post 922553)
Local meeting discussion. Bats are checked before game. All are fine. Somewhere in the game, a batter approaches the plate with a choke up device on the bat. Is it an altered bat? Some at our local meeting said it was, but the altered bat definition speaks of a structural change. The structure of the bat wasn't changed was it? Do we simply say to the batter that it can't be used? By the way, Fed website shows 1-5-2A with choke up device mentioned in last sentence. Paper rulebook doesn't mention the word choke up device in 1-5-2A.

I would not say altered, but I don't know much about the physical characteristics of the devices. Not within the sense of the altered rule, I would say.

EsqUmp Thu Feb 13, 2014 09:05am

This is from 2011. Not sure if it has changed...

ART. 2 . . . The bat shall consist of the following components (see Figure 1-7): a. Knob. The bat knob shall protrude at a 90-degree angle from the handle. The knob may be molded, lathed, welded or permanently fastened. Devices, attachments or wrappings are permitted except those that cause the knob to become flush with the handle. A one-piece rubber knob and bat grip
combination is illegal.

Little Jimmy Thu Feb 13, 2014 09:28am

Choke-up devices are not permitted as of the 2014 Fed rule book.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 922583)
This is from 2011. Not sure if it has changed...

ART. 2 . . . The bat shall consist of the following components (see Figure 1-7): a. Knob. The bat knob shall protrude at a 90-degree angle from the handle. The knob may be molded, lathed, welded or permanently fastened. Devices, attachments or wrappings are permitted except those that cause the knob to become flush with the handle. A one-piece rubber knob and bat grip
combination is illegal.

Old rule, but doesn't really refer to what they are referring to. To be honest, I've never seen whatever it is to which they are referring.

Insane Blue Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 922706)
Old rule, but doesn't really refer to what they are referring to. To be honest, I've never seen whatever it is to which they are referring.

Check these out
Baseball Accessories | Hitting Aids | CG1 by ChokeGrip
adidas Bat Choke - Dick's Sporting Goods

IRISHMAFIA Fri Feb 14, 2014 07:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 922714)

IMO, another sign of laziness and weakness on behalf of the coaching world.

If you "need" something like this, you should, IMO, find another game.

AtlUmpSteve Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy (Post 922553)
Local meeting discussion. Bats are checked before game. All are fine. Somewhere in the game, a batter approaches the plate with a choke up device on the bat. Is it an altered bat? Some at our local meeting said it was, but the altered bat definition speaks of a structural change. The structure of the bat wasn't changed was it? Do we simply say to the batter that it can't be used? By the way, Fed website shows 1-5-2A with choke up device mentioned in last sentence. Paper rulebook doesn't mention the word choke up device in 1-5-2A.

Not altered. Illegal, same as if the grip was torn and needs to be rewrapped. It is correctable, so not a change in structure. Remove the choke-up device, and it can become legal again; an altered bat can never become legal again.

CecilOne Fri Feb 14, 2014 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 922761)
Not altered. Illegal, same as if the grip was torn and needs to be rewrapped. It is correctable, so not a change in structure. Remove the choke-up device, and it can become legal again; an altered bat can never become legal again.

Luckily, that's about what I thought earlier, without being sure that the device could be removed without damage.

Dakota Fri Feb 14, 2014 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 922805)
Luckily, that's about what I thought earlier, without being sure that the device could be removed without damage.

Well, if it can't be removed without damage, then the bat has been altered, right? :)

CecilOne Fri Feb 14, 2014 05:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 922811)
Well, if it can't be removed without damage, then the bat has been altered, right? :)

If that were the case. But as above, all those we know about are clip-ons or slip-ons; completely removable without permanent structure change/damage.

Dakota Sat Feb 15, 2014 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 922890)
If that were the case. But as above, all those we know about are clip-ons or slip-ons; completely removable without permanent structure change/damage.

I was thinking the conversation would go something like this:

U: Batter, you can't have that device on your bat. Take it off if you want to use that bat.
B: But, it won't come off.
U: OK. Now you're out for coming to the plate with an altered bat.

:D

Crabby_Bob Sat Feb 15, 2014 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 922988)
I was thinking the conversation would go something like this:

U: Batter, you can't have that device on your bat. Take it off if you want to use that bat.
B: But, it won't come off.
U: OK. Now you're out for coming to the plate with an altered bat.

:D

Is that all? ;)

IRISHMAFIA Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 922988)
I was thinking the conversation would go something like this:

U: Batter, you can't have that device on your bat. Take it off if you want to use that bat.
B: But, it won't come off.
U: OK. Now you're out for coming to the plate with an altered bat.

:D

Then is should have been noticed when? Come on, you all know the answer.

AtlUmpSteve Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 922988)
I was thinking the conversation would go something like this:

U: Batter, you can't have that device on your bat. Take it off if you want to use that bat.
B: But, it won't come off.
U: OK. Now you're out for coming to the plate with an altered bat.

:D

You mean like the earrings that can't come out, either? What is it, nailed, soldered, or super-glued to the bat? THAT would be an altered bat; the average youth player might think if it were taped on that it won't come off.

Hoping you would have the start of that conversation with the coach in the pregame bat check, actually. That's when you would/should see it for the first time.


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