What the Heck is the Point For?

Manny A

At a training session over the weekend, a colleague brought the most recent NFHS Preseason Guide that Referee magazine puts out. For those who don't do high school ball, it's a 16-page document that covers rule changes, tips, guidance, etc., for the softball umpire's upcoming season.

In it (and I can't pinpoint the page number since I don't have a copy of the guide), there's a column about obstruction. It includes a PlayPic diagram of what the umpire should do when he/she sees a violation. The diagram has the umpire holding the arm out to signal delayed-dead ball, but shows the umpire pointing with the other hand at the infraction. Pointing? That's how a baseball umpire signals obstruction!

Is this just the latest goof by Referee magazine, which is notorious for putting out bad info in the past? Or has the mechanic in softball changed for this season?

BTW, I also think the PlayPic shows the umpire holding out the right arm for the DDB signal, while the point is with the left arm, but I could be wrong on that.

okla21fan

the 2014-2015 NFHS softball umpire manual does not mention or show the 'point'.

MD Longhorn

I stopped reading your post at "Referee Magazine". Other than the ads at the back, I've never found any use for any of the advice I've read in that magazine, and their rules and mechanics quizzes are more often wrong than right. Sounds like this one's wrong too.

okla21fan

I thought the article on Slap Hitters was pretty insightful and helpful.

Manny A

MD Longhorn wrote
I stopped reading your post at "Referee Magazine". Other than the ads at the back, I've never found any use for any of the advice I've read in that magazine, and their rules and mechanics quizzes are more often wrong than right. Sounds like this one's wrong too.

Yeah, I used to post on another forum the mistakes I would find in each edition of the magazine. It made for some lively discussion on how screwed up their expert advice really was. After a while I got tired of reading them. I still get them since I'm a member of NASO, but they usually accumulate in the reading material basket next to the commode until I decide to empty the basket out.

I was just amazed when I saw the PlayPic with what amounts to a hybrid mechanic that is flat-out wrong for FED softball. I kinda wonder if this is a FED baseball mechanic that the writer felt (wrongly) applies equally in softball.

EsqUmp

Notwithstanding the fact that it might not be an approved mechanic, do you like the mechanic or see the value in using it?

xtremeump

I do like the mechanic, it shows everyone that you saw something. A simple point "That's Obstruction" followed with a DDB Signal ( left arm ) point taken.

RKBUmp

Doesn't using the correct mechanic signify the umpire saw the infraction?

EsqUmp

RKBUmp wrote
Doesn't using the correct mechanic signify the umpire saw the infraction?

Not necessarily. Obstruction is one of those plays that can occur (and almost will definitely occur) without the ball. When it comes to runners running the bases and the ball not near them, most people don't pay attention to obstruction. Usually, it is only the umpire and maybe an offensive coach. Defensive team members are watching the ball more. Particularly with multiple runners on base where any of them could be obstructed by any number of defenders, it can be helpful (though not always) to point to the person who committed the infraction. That can be true on less involved plays too, like R1 stealing 2nd base and there being possible obstruction on F4, F5 or F6.

Often, the player who obstructs a runner is no where around where the obstruction occurred when it is time to make a ruling/award. Pointing to the offender and even, dare I say it, verbalizing obstruction puts people on notice.

You'll hear people make a BS argument that players will stop if you verbalize obstruction. Well, they don't stop runner or swinging when we say illegal pitch. They don't stop when we say "Early" in NCAA when a runner leaves prior to the release. I've never had a runner stop because I verbalized obstruction. And if she did, what the hell difference would it make? She's getting awarded the base(s) I think she would have made but for the obstruction anyway.

RKBUmp

If they dont see the DDB signal or hear the umpire say obstruciton, how is pointing going to make any difference? If they didnt see the arm out, how would they possibly see the point?

Manny A

EsqUmp wrote
Often, the player who obstructs a runner is no where around where the obstruction occurred when it is time to make a ruling/award. Pointing to the offender and even, dare I say it, verbalizing obstruction puts people on notice.

Verbalizing "Obstruction" is part of the accepted mechanic.

I don't see any value in the point. Giving the DDB signal and saying "Obstruction" is sufficient. Why should the umpire have to add anything superfluous to designate where it happened and/or who was guilty? Once play ends, the umpire who made the call is going to announce specifics of the infraction such as, "Obstruction on the first baseman" or something similar.

Regardless of its worth, the point is not part of the approved mechanic as of now (unless it has changed, and from this thread it appears it hasn't), and the diagram in the Referee magazine product is wrong. Par for the course, unfortunately.

Insane Blue

It is a baseball only thing!!! NFHS Baseball dropped the extended arm for Delayed Dead Ball 2 years ago.
I was doing baseball when they they dropped the DDB signal but I would still use it and most coaches where glad to see it used as they would be more aggressive to get the base knowing that they where protected.

NFHS Baseball also automatically awards the next base for Obstruction calls.

MD Longhorn

Insane Blue wrote
NFHS Baseball also automatically awards the next base for Obstruction calls.

Want to fact check this one real quick?

nopachunts

Insane Blue wrote
NFHS Baseball also automatically awards the next base for Obstruction calls.

Insane Blue is probably referring to 8-3-2 that states if a runner is obstructed, the umpire will award base(s) to negate the obstruction. The award will be at least one base past the last base legally touched on the runner that was obstructed.

xtremeump

RKBUmp wrote
Doesn't using the correct mechanic signify the umpire saw the infraction?

To who ? Most people are watching the ball ? Some times I put my left sock on my right foot, I know that it is not approved but that's just the kind of Umpire that I am. Not approved by the Umpire God's, yes I know. On this Forum it is easy to do a game, the timing is always perfect, the Rule book is never wrong, there is always time to get to the perfect spot, and best of all nobody just Kicks a call. The answer to the question is always easy, the big problem is my Spell Check working !!! The greatest part of doing a game on the Forum is my cup is never half empty.

RKBUmp

And again, if they didnt see your arm out, how the heck are they going to see you point?

shagpal

when my cup is on, its full of balls.

xtremeump wrote
To who ? Most people are watching the ball ? Some times I put my left sock on my right foot, I know that it is not approved but that's just the kind of Umpire that I am. Not approved by the Umpire God's, yes I know. On this Forum it is easy to do a game, the timing is always perfect, the Rule book is never wrong, there is always time to get to the perfect spot, and best of all nobody just Kicks a call. The answer to the question is always easy, the big problem is my Spell Check working !!! The greatest part of doing a game on the Forum is my cup is never half empty.

xtremeump

shagpal wrote
when my cup is on, its full of balls.

+1 Is that approved by the Softball Gods ? I like the idea while sitting here in my Chase Recliner talking Softball wearing my proper term (Athletic Supporter) ? And to make things even better I have my wife making my Drinks for me.. When you talk to NPF UIC Ed Whipple before you get your schedule, ask him about (The Point) ? GTG my wife is here with another drink.

shagpal

back then, the gods did not wear cups. they just had their balls bronzed for hardness.

they didn't wear masks either. they had thick leathery faces and big hair doos to protect them. there was no approval for disapproval. it was all good.

what's the point with ed? is he a random premature pointer or non approved non pointer type?

xtremeump wrote
+1 Is that approved by the Softball Gods ? I like the idea while sitting here in my Chase Recliner talking Softball wearing my proper term (Athletic Supporter) ? And to make things even better I have my wife making my Drinks for me.. When you talk to NPF UIC Ed Whipple before you get your schedule, ask him about (The Point) ? GTG my wife is here with another drink.

EsqUmp

shagpal wrote
back then, the gods did not wear cups. they just had their balls bronzed for hardness.

they didn't wear masks either. they had thick leathery faces and big hair doos to protect them. there was no approval for disapproval. it was all good.

what's the point with ed? is he a random premature pointer or non approved non pointer type?

I addressed that in Post #9 if you want to take a look.