Ok I have a question. My softball team and I lost our tournament game in double over time by one point because an umpire changed his call is he allowed to do that after the play is over?

If you lost after two extra innings by one run, it must have been an exciting game. Unfortunately for your team, yes, the umpire can change his call after the play is over. Though we would prefer to get it right immediately.

You should consider your teams lucky to have an umpire that wanted to make sure he got the call right even when he knew that the fans and teams would give him a hard time.

can an ump.....
 

but can an umpire change his call under the infulence of a player from the other team?

Though, "under the influence" is probably not the correct term, yes he can.

Here's one that happened to me a long time back. Foul pop-up hit near the offensive dugout. The 3rd baseman moved over toward the dugout. Just as the fielder got there, the ball still about 30-40 feet in the air, the quiet dugout all scream at once, "I've got it!" They scream so loud the fielder literial jumps back and turns her head away like she is getting ready to collide with someone. I call "verbal interference" and go back to the plate.

The offensive coach calmly walks up to me and says, "Verbal interference?" and I say, "yeah, that's an out." The coach then says, but the ball fell into dead ball territory, she couldn't have caught it. I realized that he was right. I was concentrating so much on the fielder that it had not registered that I had noticed the ball fall into dead ball territory. With the high fence there was no way the fielder could have caught it. I immediately overturned my call... "under the influence" of the coach.

Dan,
but that was "under the influence" of a COACH. our umpire changed his call "under the influence" of a PLAYER. i was reading some rules that i found and it said that the only people who can question the ump is a coach or a assistant coach.
Katee

Katee,

The question was asked and answered. Give it a break.

Thank you,

Katee,

The question was asked and answered. Give it a break.

Thank you,


What ever happened to free speech? Any posts that you don't agree with or don't interest you have to ignored?

I'll just sit back now and wait for the invitation to the other board. Please list it for softballfreak also.

My point is unless this is YOUR board and YOUR the administrator YOU should allow anyone to post what they want and voice their opinions,

Glen

Glen, does that rule go for everyone except Mike Rowe? Or is he allowed to post his opinion that Katee should give it a rest? Just curious...

Katee (the future of softball) is allowed to post anything, anytime. She will be even more welcome and receive more and better responses as her questions get more objective. :cool:

Mike is allowed to post only when he is correct. ;)

wrt Mike, is there a difference? http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/...smiley-062.gif

you know what im sry i even asked the question if this is gonna cuz people to fight then ill just keep my mouth shut im just trying to help my softball team
Katee

Don't be discouraged to post here, Katee. This is a great place to learn more about softball, even if you think you know it already. I'm 90% wrong when I post (Ask those who have corrected me.):D and I'm learning all the time. Some very respected people are here willing to answer your questions and give you the help that you need.

Not fighting, just debating with a little teasing ;) thrown in. Most of us use this forum enough that we can tease each other and some are personally acquainted :eek:. You will get used to it, especially if you look for the smilies. :D :) :D

Katee, Keep reading, and posting. I would hope you always want to improve yourself, and your team. The problems players pose help me at least to keep a perspective from a players point of view. As you may realize, softball rules can at times be subject to "Umpires Judgement". If you read this board enough, you will see that term frequently. Umpires do err at times, (and also like to argue with each other A LOT, you didn't cause that!). Sometimes if we ask, and dont get the answer we want, we will try and argue our point, that is fine in this forum, cause it really makes us all think very hard about our calls, and interpretations of the rules. I have coached many years, and now umpire. One point I would like you to consider is one I would make to my girls, that is (as in your original post) A bad call did not cause you to lose. Your team had the whole game to outscore the other team, so the loss doesnt go to the umpire, and why did ya'll let that runner get to third anyway? If after that tight of a game, two extra innings, hold your head up, you didn't get beat, just outscored! Keep the posts coming.

jel
we let the runner get to third base cuz our pitcher let us down cuz she complained to our coach!

Katee,

You asked a question which included vocabulary and phrases that demonstrate a limited knowledge of the game. (i.e., points as opposed to runs).

You noted that the umpire was "under the influence" of a PLAYER. Just what does that mean? I could go into a few scenarios, but they may not be appropriate since I am unaware of your age.

Are you talking about someone discussing a situation with an umpire or that individual blackmailing an umpire into calling a game in a certain manner to benefit that person? Are you unaware that your coach/players can talk to the umpire if done in the proper manner?

You posed the question to a group of umpires who demonstrate on a daily basis their love and dedication to the game of softball. Their habitual presence on this and other boards is an indication they care about the game, the officiating and the rules that govern it.

The question was answered in two posts by a reputable member of this board, but all you wanted to do is ask the same question again, twice! Unlike politicians, sports officials listen to the question and them provide the answer and move on. Many on this board react the same here as they would on the field.

They listen, they answer and then they move on. A player or coach who insist on carrying on a conversation with which an umpire considers concluded risks ejection.

Yes, an umpire may change his/her call. Sometimes it isn't proper, but other then the undefined "under the influence" statement, you have offered no reason as to indicate the umpire did something improper.

Mike certainly does not need me to defend him, but I will anyway.

If you are as regular a reader as you say, you would notice that Mike actually shows a good deal of restraint on this board. I suspect that he is the same on the field, being as he mainly does the SP game and has to deal with the adult wannabes or never weres.

Most of us have little patience for the "we lost our game because the umpire did something wrong" crowd. When one of those type questions is posted here, we attempt to explain what may have happened without the benefit of seeing the incident. However, we usually have no issues with pointing out that an umpire may have done something incorrectly.

For the most part, the regulars here treat all posters civilly and with respect. If you want flaming, the McGriff board is still there, but most of us aren't.

Well said, Andy.

Dukat's last couple of posts have been taking shots at Mike. Makes you wonder wazup? http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/...smiley-003.gif

There is nothing up, I just comment on what I see. I agree with you on the "Umpire lost the game" comment and agree that is never a good excuse for losing a game. I just have never been a fan of someone ragging on someone else and never being questioned about it. I also agree that Mike has posted some great posts and his knowledge of the game is extensive and I respect that, I just don’t like the "That is a stupid question" or "answered so shut up" responses. That was the crux of my replies. After re-reading the original reply I should have made it more general instead of being directed toward just Mike and I am sorry for that as I really do respect his knowledge.

[Edited by Dukat on Aug 12th, 2003 at 11:11 AM]

First off, I did not offer an opinion on the situation as it was covered quite well by another umpire. Therefore, there was nothing for anyone which to disagree. I addressed what I consider whining. This is an softball umpire's board. When a non-umpire joins the discussion or asks a question, even a stupid one, it is usually answered in a timely fashion by one member of the board or another. It is not a rare occurance that it turns into one helluva good discussion.

The inquiry in question was a simple one. A reply was supplied and was on target. The poster asking the question then repeated it just changing an irrelevent word or two. The same umpire replied in a similar manner. Then came the third inquiry which was the basically the same as the previous two.

Some of the reasons umpires want to talk to a coach and only the coach is so the conversation is controlled, the umpire can pay attention to a single voice. That way they can hear what is being said and understand the team's complaint. Also, it eliminates answering the same question more than once.

I doubt many on this board would tolerate a player or coach standing there and complaining until they receive the answer they want to hear. We read, we listen and we respond. If there is an additional point to raise, then raise it, but don't stand there rehashing the same scenario repeatedly unless you want to go home early.

Just another umpire,

I agree to the fact that you do not allow someone to argue till they get the answer they want but being that I started out as a coach before the transition to official I can understand both sides and when coaching I never liked the hard nosed umpire that wouldnt listen to anyone even when they were wrong and therefore I try not to be that way. I was just trying to get across that if the Coaches and Umpires would be civil and have fun with it instead of being so sensitive it would make it alot easier on everyone involved and I saw those same kind of Coach/Player -vs- Umpire discussions turning mean here and voiced my opinion. In the end though it almost came to me doing what I was trying to voice my disagreements with and for that I am sorry.

I reread this whole thread, and I think I see why "softballfreak" was persistent. While the original question was about whether an umpire can change their mind, the response was in the context of it being questioned by a coach. The followup asked about whether a player can raise the issue. This really a seperate matter, i.e. can a player bring something to an umpire, or can only a coach or manager? I do agree that the questions could have been a little more clear.

I hope "softballfreak" will continue to read this board, as I believe much good info. and insight can be gained. I've probably learned more here than from most clinics & meetings I've been to. Players, coaches, and umpires can all better themselves by taking in the discussions that arise here. But this thread does highlight why it is good to present a well thought out question, with detailed scenarios, so that those responding can be sure of what they are responding to.

For what it is worth, IMO, most umpires are becoming more willing to listen to questions from players and others as well as just the manager/head coach, if the questions / comments are reasonable, and stated in a professional manner. This is in the spirit of getting it right, and also to try to further everyone's understanding. But the outbursts and rants are not going to be listened to.

And, yes, an umpire (we are human too) can change their mind if they are convinced they missed something. I think "under the influence" may not have been the best phrase to have used here to indicate that the umpire revised their decision, based on reviewing further info. brought to their attention.