showcase
 

I should have asked sooner, but are any of you at the showcase in Sterling, VA? If so, field and time, please

Yes, I was at Potomic Lakes yesterday and will be at Claude Moore today. I am a bit sore today and I sure even more so tomorrow.
On #9 today.

Where in what manual is the 2 out tap 2 fingers on the wrist? :confused:

NCAA :cool:

I like this umpire to umpire signal for a possible timing play. My problem with it is people that use it incorrectly. I have several umpire partners that do it any time there are 2 outs, even with nobody on. I have explained to them you don't have to worry about if a run scores or not with nobody on base. They also give it in the last inning with 2 outs when there is no way the team can win and runs scored don't matter. Maybe I am being too picky. Dave

I agree with your point on no runners being on base. But in some situations, runs scored DO matter in the last inning, particularly when those runs affect possible tie-breaking calculations. They also matter with respect to statistics determination.

Let me put it this way: In the last inning where the home team is winning by five, and there's a runner on second base with two outs, are you suggesting that you wouldn't turn to the scorer and announce if the run counts or not on a timing play to end the game? If you would, then you should give the signal, IMHO.

I find it ludicrous as if you believe the signal to be necessary, you must agree that the "two" portion is irrelevant and you should be offering it every time the number of outs & runners equals three.

Stop making sense. :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

How would you compare it's usefulness to the umpire-to-umpire infield fly signal?

About the same. My opinion is that a missed IF has a more negative affect on the game. When a player scores that is what the umpire is supposed to be observing anyway, not just in a particular situation. In an IF, the umpire's forgetfulness can cause direct confusion with the play and result since many an umpire will just as likely make an excuse for failing to make the appropriate call than to apply it post-play.

And again, the purpose of the two-out indicator has nothing to do with two outs.

Picky, no; but I believe you have missed an evolution of the signal.

This was originally adopted by the NCAA SUIP to signify a possible two out timing play where a run scoring might depend on the time of the out. It was used only with two outs and at least one runner on base (usually second), like baseball; then it was extended to a runner on first, with the speed of this game. It wasn't used in ANY case where a third world play might make timing an issue, it was simply a "heads up, this could be significant".

Starting with the 2012 CCA Manual, the signal was renamed the two out signal, and was extended to be used any time there are two outs, regardless runners, regardless how many batters in a row bat with two outs. It is the approved alternative to baseball holding both arms out (all softball umpire-to-umpire signals are kept within your body), and encompasses everything that may come with two outs; an out being inning-ending, a possible timing play, effectively wipes off any infield fly rule possibility. Knowing that there are two outs is deemed important enough to be sure all the umpires agree.

I'm not sure why it isn't equally (or almost as) important to know when there is one out, but we are damn well expected to know when there are two.

Another "reminder" (necessary, or not), is that "Dropped or Grounded 3rd Strike" is in effect with R on 1B.

Are you saying the timing play signal is given for that purpose as well? Or are you saying there is another signal that is sometimes given to inform partners of this situation?

Either way, I cannot ever remember anyone telling me in a class, clinic, or critique that a signal exists to do this.

I am glad you straightened me out on this. My partners probably thought I was an idiot for telling them not to do it in certain situations. Dave

And why did someone believe it was necessary to have ANOTHER "two out signal"?

I've been using a "two out signal" since 1966. I hold up two fingers as I raise my right hand above head level.

And don't be looking for an emoticon here.

I've never heard it in any clinics either. I just put this in the "bonus" category for flashing a two out signal that may provide information for the crew:
a.) timing play is on
b.) IFF is off
c.) U3K is on

And as your partner, I'd be wondering why the batter already has an 0-2 count.

:p:D

I know of a few umpires that would be thinking IRISHMAFIA is buying the first two rounds outta da bar when the game/s over.:D

So, you guys don't know how to give the out count? You must really struggle when you have to use both hands for balls and strikes. :rolleyes:

You're supposed to use two hands to show the balls and strikes? :eek:

speed up rule

I know an umpire that has only one arm. He refuses to use two hands for the count.

We have one too and I'll be darned if we cant keep him from calling strikes and outs with his left hand.

At least he ALWAYS signals delayed dead ball properly.........................

Yet I see so many umpires use two hands for outs. I had one guy tell me he was taught to do this to practice his "safe" signal? :eek:

I've got your back if you can sell it!

I would be thinking that you had regressed to your hippie days....:p


don't laugh - we ha a guy in our ASA and school groups who lives up by the Woodstock site. BIG bushy hair and unkempt beard....had to BEG him to get clean unis...we obviously called him 'Woodstock' - and worse.

Well, the problem with that is I've never been a hippie. Straight-laced nerd in HS before there was even such a thing, enlisted in USN month before HS graduation and in my younger days I was considered quite the Conservative. Voted FOR Nixon and would vote for him again compared to the pretenders we refer to today as leaders.

Never messed with any drug my doctor did not prescribed and didn't take half of them, still don't, and not only did I not inhale, I've never smoked a joint, just no desire. And as many places as I have been, the closest I've ever come to Woodstock is driving up I87 on my way to the MA or VT mountains. But, as we all know, Woodstock did not take place in Woodstock, but over 40 miles Southwest of Woodstock near Bethel, NY which makes Elk Mountain (Union Dale, PA) the closest to the festival. :)

Always in a clean and proper uniform and the only time my beard gets a little scraggly was in the ski season. It can get cold on top of a mountain and regardless of what some alleged experts state, a full beards does help.

So, I my question to which it seems no one has an answer, still stands. :cool: :p

OK, so now this is a biographical site. ;) :p :rolleyes:

Do you mean this question?
"And why did someone believe it was necessary to have ANOTHER "two out signal"?" :confused:

At least I got an answer to mine. :cool: :D

The times, they are a-changing

The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind...

More importantly ...

You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a good bye.