LL world series
 

Have watched 25 minutes of the younger age group (NJ and Virginia) playing and have already seen 2 umpires get run into by players trying to field balls. One on the left field line, the other on the right field line.

Watch PGF/ premier, and that will all go away. Those are NCAA umpires in 3 and 4 man crews working those PGF games.


ESPNU
Sunday 08/11/13 10:00 AM PST 18 Premier National Championship

Comcast SportsNet Chicago
Sat 08/03/13 4:00 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 14U National Championship (7/27)*
Sat 08/03/13 7:00 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 16UNational Championship (D7/27)*
Sat 08/03/13 12:30 AM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 14U National Championship (7/27) (R)*
Sat 08/10/13 2:30 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 16U National Championship (D7/27) (R)*
Sat 08/10/13 7:00 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 12U National Championship (D8/3)*
Sat 08/10/13 12:30 AM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 12U National Championship (D8/3) (R)*
Thu 08/15/13 12:30 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 14U National Championship (7/27) (R)*
Thu 08/15/13 3:00 PM 2.50 (SFB) PGF 12U National Championship (D8/3) (R)

FOX Sports
Sat, 08/10/2013 11:00 AM 14U National Championship FSPT
Sat, 08/10/2013 01:15 PM 16U National Championship FSPT
Sun, 08/11/2013 11:30 AM 16U National Championship FSPT
Mon, 08/12/2013 10:00 AM 14U National Championship FSPT
Mon, 08/12/2013 03:00 PM 16U National Championship FSPT
Tue, 08/13/2013 10:00 AM 16U National Championship FSPT
Fri, 08/16/2013 10:00 AM 14U National Championship FSPT
Sat, 08/17/2013 12:00 PM 12U National Championship FSPT
Mon, 08/19/2013 03:00 PM 14U National Championship FSPT
Mon, 08/19/2013 05:15 PM 16U National Championship FSPT
Tue, 08/20/2013 10:00 AM 12U National Championship FSPT
Thu, 08/22/2013 10:00 AM 16U National Championship FSPT
Fri, 08/23/2013 10:00 AM 12U National Championship FSPT
Sat, 08/24/2013 12:00 PM 12U National Championship FSPT
Sun, 08/25/2013 11:00 AM 16U National Championship FSPT

CSN Houston*
14U – 8/10 1:30 PM CT
16U – 8/15 11:00 AM CT
12U – 8/31 1:30 PM CT

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18281 Gothard St. #112 | Huntington Beach, CA 92648 US

Did you see the bad call at 3b? How can you be that far out of position when in a 6 man?

Yes just saw it. Looked almost like he was actually behind the base coach and was directly behind the tag. No way he even knew if the runner had actually been tagged or when.

He was way out of position. It's not the first time I've seen a LLWS umpire at third base get caught directly in line with the runner, being screened by F5.

I believe LL teaches U1 and U3 to drift down the line in foul territory when the ball is batted into the outfield, and then move toward the line for a play at their bases. It looks like this guy just didn't drift far enough.

Six umpires on that field is overkill if not simply nutty. I thought it looked really lame when they all congregated to discuss a foul/fair call.

If you're talking about the foul/fair ball that was off of F5's glove, the 1BL field umpire walked up late and the look on his face seemed to say "do I really need to be here"? ESPN kept trying to show shots that could help determine the call but they were all at the wrong angle. I don't know why the 3B umpire was so far off of the line.

No disagreement there. For some reason, W-port and its regions feel that they have to emulate the big boys in MLB. Fine; do that for the 90' games. But no way is it necessary for the 60' and 70' fields.

At the 18U Gold, we went with three-man, even for the final. The same was true in our state high school championships, where I was U1 in a three-man crew for the AAA state semifinal. We did use four-man in past high school tournaments, but I guess the powers-that-be felt that three umpires could adequately handle it. I cannot recall the last time I saw a four-man crew for softball games.

I'm thinking 6 man crews are used to let more deserving volunteers get on the field.

My thoughts exactly.

I know that's the way it's done on the baseball side. I also think that's why they instituted the replay appeal on the baseball side because some the officials had know idea of what they were supposed to be doing. JMO

Perhaps.

But what's more important, having the right number of umpires on the field that can cover every contingency while not clogging up the field? Or turning these crucial games into a reward system for those deserving volunteers that could very easily and negatively impact the game?

I'm not convinced that a base umpire can't chase fly balls in their areas of responsibility when the fence is 200' to 225' away on the small diamond. All three base umpires start at least 70' away from home plate. It's not like they have to make judgment calls on fair/foul, catch/no catch, etc., that are 250' or more away from them.

The fact that these dedicated volunteers are even at the regional tournaments and world series is a tribute to their work. If the standard was four-man for all games, they would all get equal opportunities, for the most part. Let the best four do the championship. Putting six of them on the field for every game does more harm than good.

I work a HS SB tournament every year that uses four umpires for the final game.

Four umpires is overkill in FP SB....

The PGF/Premier should all be 4-man games except for 12u is 3-man.

PA high school uses four umpires for the games leading up to and including the state championship.

I take it you didn't watch the World Cup of Softball :D

Naah, I didn't. Was it worth watching? :p

Do they ever use four-man for the NCAAs? I thought there were only three-man crews for the WCWS.

You are correct about the NCAA, except some crews were not 3 men; some even had women (and no, I'm not being politically correct, I'm being correct).

However, the World Cup of softball, which featured teams representing countries, used a four umpire crew for each game. To my knowledge, the ISF is the only governing body that publishes a four umpire manual. It is these guide lines that I used to create the materials for the PIAA's four umpire mechanics.

I’ll admit that I am not a LL rules expert, but I found it extremely frustrating that the PU called an illegal pitch for some unknown violation against the AZ team while nearly every pitch from PR had multiple ball/glove touches, one time the girl stepped onto the plate with the hands together, separated with the ball in the hand, brought her hands together, separated, together, start pitch at the top of her windup touched again. That has got to be illegal.

Also what about a step backwards? It that allowed, like in NFHS; or not, like in ASA?

Didn't watch the game so I can't address your IP comments. But LL does allow the backward step like NFHS.

The one pitcher for Virginia was illegal on virtually every pitch, constantly bringing hands together multiple times. There were a few instances where I actually saw her pitching the ball into her glove while standing on the pitching plate. But, the girl that pitched for AZ in the championship game was also illegal on virtually every pitch. She was stepping on and had her hands coming together while stepping on, sometimes they were even together before she was on.

I have no idea what the one IP he called on the AZ girl was for. Looked fine to me except she lost her balance a little and kind of shuffled her feet on the pitching plate.

One of my frustrations with softball around here is that I am THE ONLY ONE who calls illegal pitches in the lower levels of ball (Little League). I'm trying to get others trained to do so. But it means conquering the attitude that "we just want it over the plate. who cares how it gets there".

These girls then move on to freshman or JV ball where the new guys work who also don't know what an illegal pitch is yet or how to call it. No one calls it till they get to varsity and, quite honestly, a precious few do so. So most of the coaches don't bother correcting form at all, choosing to let the pitchers pitch anyway they want until they get to an umpire who will call it.

I'm getting better at calling the illegal pitches but it's no fun doing it because the pitchers have their illegal motion ingrained and keep repeating the illegal action. Last year, varsity pitcher kept stepping back after her hands came together. Coach didn't understand what I was calling.

In baseball, at least the coaches have some idea what a balk is and will correct their pitchers, or put in a new one till they can work the problem out. Softball, they only have the one, maybe two, pitchers.

Vent over.

Rita

Re: illegal pitches.
I agree. Maybe it's time for the rules folks/powers that be to take a long look at pitching and do a study of which actions really put batters at a disadvantage and which do not. I find it a bit of a stretch in many instances where some of those actions deemed illegal really make a difference. I could be wrong, but it has become such an issue it might call for consideration.

My favorite, the league my kids played in and now where 2 grandkids are playing, is Newark National Little League in Delaware.
Also where I coached and started umpiring; currently one of my sons is doing the same.

They play tonight at 8:00, ESPN2.


sorry, ESPN not 2.

Yes, some of the pitching rules probably need to be looked at, but the bigger problem is the umpires who pick and choose what they call. Or, the ones who call nothing and then we that do get yelled at because little Suzie has never been called in her life even though her drag foot is 2' off the ground. Not calling the rules as they are written, especially when the girls are younger is a real disservice to them. Sooner or later they are going to run into an umpire that is calling per the rule book and they wont be able to fix it, and usually it happens at nationals.

Or in a state HS tournament final.

A girl, essentially, pitched sidearm the entire season. Nobody called anything all season. They get to state. Nobody calls IPs during the state semifinal game. They are blatantly obvious, even to this guy who doesn't work softball anymore.

Umpires are told to call it during the final. They call about 13 against the girl and the team gets hammered. Complete disaster. I felt for everyone, including the umpires told to crack the whip in a state final game (who did as they were told).

From the LL Softball Rule Book under 8.01:

(d) The pitcher shall take a position with his/her pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate. This contact must be on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot foot must be on or behind the pitcher’s plate.

(e) While on the pitching plate, the pitcher shall take the signal or appear to be taking a signal with the hands separated. The ball must remain in either the glove or pitching hand.

I may be wrong, but as I read that, LL softball rules do not require the pitcher to have the hands separated when she first steps on the pitcher's plate. She just has to have them separated when she gets settled and looks in for the signal.

Regardless of if they do not require them to be separated while stepping on, she was violating the taking a signal with the hands separated.

If the pitch starts when her hands separate, and her hands are together when she steps on the plate, how can she take signs with the hands separated without violating the requirement to pitch with a continuous motion?

I don't umpire LL Softball, Hugo, so I don't know for sure. But again, as I read it, there is no stated requirement in 8.01(d), as there is in the other rule sets (e.g., NFHS 6-1-1a), that the pitcher has to have her hands separated when she first contacts the plate.

She could, for example, have them together as she looks down to get on the plate, separates her hands, and then looks up to start taking the sign.

Then she has failed to pitch with a continuous motion.

Pretty much the same thing happened in FL one year.

HOWEVER, I would be cautious about believing a coach who claims that "No one has called that all year."
I can't count the times I've been told that only to run into other umpires who have called the exact same illegal pitch.

Better yet, I had a pitcher tell her coach that I was the umpire that called the same thing on her the week before.

That's great, when the pitcher has to tell him (or her)!

I had one (during a HS Regional Semi) where I called the pitcher for stepping outside the 24....
As I was thinking "oh boy, now I gotta explain this", the catcher tells me "she gets that called that all the time".

Two pitches later she does it again, but this time the coach asks to talk to me and says, "I don't understand it, she's never done that before"
I just told her, "well, she's doing it now and it's illegal"

Coach took her out of the game... put in studdette number two and went on to win the game in 9 innings.....

They won, now 5:00 Sunday vs. California.

Some terrible umpiring things:
First inning, two umps each missed what looked obvious calls. Both overturned on replay.
On one, the U2 signaled out, then safe after the F4 dropped it trying to throw to 1st.
Worst of that was that the PU sees the replay then overrules the BU.
On one, gave the wrong signal, safe when he meant out.

Also, no reason for U1 to be in foul ground on a ball hit to pitcher.

If using 6 umps, U1 should not signal f/f along with URF (?). Just because I did that a few times as PU when U1 had it is no excuse.

JUCO game a couple of years ago. Bottom of first inning, visiting team pitcher is taking a small step forward with her pivot foot before she pitches. I am BU, call like seven of these in a row, several of which were pounded for extra base hits and home runs. Coach and pitcher have no reaction at all. Bases empty, I call it again and walk over to the first base dugout where the V team is and tell the coach what I am seeing. Her response is "I know, she has done it all year and I can't get her to stop." I call about four more, then the coach comes out and replaces the pitcher.....

So much for "coaching" the player.

Was she stepping in front of the plate and completely losing contact? I saw a pitcher this spring who "slid" her foot forward on the plate until only her heel was touching the front of the plate.

College allows the pivot foot to be lifted off the plate so long as the foot is not moved closer to home plate when it is set back down.


Got a call to work a solo friendly scrimmage a couple of months back for a couple of coaches I know. As the scrimmage went on I was talking with both coaches about different things I saw with thier pitchers that could be a problem. The one team changed to their 3rd pitcher and I immediately saw she was taking a small step forward with her pivot foot. I went over between innings and mentioned to the coach what she was doing, he said "I know, that is one of the reasons she lost her position on high school team, been on her for a year about it and she wont fix it, I guess she just isnt going to be able to pitch anymore". Then he hells out to his pitcher, "if the plate ump can see it from behind the plate, do you really think you are going to get away with it? Fix it or dont plan on pitching anymore."

Yes....otherwise I would not have call the illegal pitch.....

+1
:rolleyes: