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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 09:07am
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U3 Button-Hook

Sorry if this post sounds a little arcane, but I'm having trouble visualizing what ASA wants from U3 under three-man when it says U3 should button-hook inside the diamond on a base hit to the outfield. I went through some three-man training yesterday in prep for a National, and I was screwing things up left and right.

How is that button-hook executed? Does U3 go down foul territory, pivot 90 degrees into the infield in front of third base, and then button-hook to watch a runner touch third? Or does U3 go straight to the button-hook position through fair territory, similar to how U1 executes it?

I tried the latter, but I quickly realized that I could easily get into the runner's path as she was approaching third. So then I tried to wait to let the runner pass, and by then I felt I could get into trouble if there was a throw to third should the runner take too wide a turn.

Then I tried by going down foul territory, but that also seemed to take too much time, and I still felt I might get into the runner's path as she rounded the base.

The only time I really felt comfortable was when there were runners at first and third, and I didn't have a runner heading for the base. I would still go down foul territory and then come in. But I'm still unsure that's the "ASA School Solution" on how to execute.

Comments?
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:04am
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Button hooking from either the foul side, or 'straight' to inside are exceptable depending on where the ball is hit, and how the runner from 2nd is approaching. Both are taught at advance camps (ASA).
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:41am
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(Note to self: Attend an advance camp...)

Thanks much.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:08am
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$400 to learn how to button hook just to watch a runner touch?

What advantage does button hooking provide when there is no play at the base? Stay outside and outa the way to watch the base touched.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
(Note to self: Attend an advance camp...)

Thanks much.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:14am
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Because that is the prescribed mechanic. When in Rome theory at work here
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:17am
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Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
What advantage does button hooking provide when there is no play at the base? Stay outside and outa the way to watch the base touched.
That's what I did the first time a runner approached third on a clean base hit. And my association UIC who was providing the training said ASA wants us to button-hook on those. I checked the Umpire Manual, and sure enough that's what it instructs.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:25am
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The downfall of an empire.

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Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
Because that is the prescribed mechanic. When in Rome theory at work here
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:33am
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Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
The downfall of an empire.
Never mind the best place to make a call at third is from the outside, right?
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:37am
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Sometimes, other times no. It depends.

On the other hand, where is the best place to be when there is NO call?

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Never mind the best place to make a call at third is from the outside, right?
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:40am
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The downfall of an empire.
maybe so, maybe not. but if one chooses not to use the prescribed mechanics for what ever association (GB) they are working for, because they 'think it is ridiculous', does that umpire also pick and choose what rule set or individual rules they will enforce as well? Mechanics are put in place for a reason and if one umpire on the crew chooses to not at the very least, try to adhere to the mechanics, that brings the whole crew down as that umpire's partners now how to worry about where you are (or not) on the field, instead of worrying about their own positioning.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:00pm
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Oh, I am not suggesting he should not follow orders. That is up to the individual receiving the orders, and the one giving the orders. We can always walk away from what doesn't make sense, or not depending on where one wants to be.

I am suggesting we can be thinking umpires and consider better mechanics. Most that do have moved on. In 3-man, and no chase, hooking only serves to setup your calling position. It doesn't affect rotation.

$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
maybe so, maybe not. but if one chooses not to use the prescribed mechanics for what ever association (GB) they are working for, because they 'think it is ridiculous', does that umpire also pick and choose what rule set or individual rules they will enforce as well? Mechanics are put in place for a reason and if one umpire on the crew chooses to not at the very least, try to adhere to the mechanics, that brings the whole crew down as that umpire's partners now how to worry about where you are (or not) on the field, instead of worrying about their own positioning.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
Button hooking from either the foul side, or 'straight' to inside are exceptable depending on where the ball is hit, and how the runner from 2nd is approaching. Both are taught at advance camps (ASA).
Let the play take you to your position, sometimes in, sometimes foul, and I also agree sometimes outside. Do not be a ROBOT, know the game and get to where you have the best angle for your calls without being in the way of the playing action. 3 man mechanics are great, do not be overwhelmed by everyone telling you that there is a perfect position all of the time. Sorry for the long post and I hope that I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I did not do well in TIME OUT.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.
I guess the same can be said about going to one of the numerous 'NCAA assigner' camps When said assigners know full and well that 75% of the particiaptes well never sniff the close shop.

Last edited by okla21fan; Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 12:27pm.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shagpal View Post
Oh, I am not suggesting he should not follow orders. That is up to the individual receiving the orders, and the one giving the orders. We can always walk away from what doesn't make sense, or not depending on where one wants to be.

I am suggesting we can be thinking umpires and consider better mechanics. Most that do have moved on. In 3-man, and no chase, hooking only serves to setup your calling position. It doesn't affect rotation.

$400 is alot of games to learn NOT to think, be stuck in that mode, then having unlearn it later.
Sorry, you and I must have posted at the same time. Good Post.
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Old Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:37pm
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I can't disagree about those camps.

One that ran the camps even admitted lamenting about the "camp whores", guys that come back year after year, not improving, hoping only to get games for time and money spent at the camp.

When it comes to those we shake our heads at, they are everywhere, not just at the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
I guess the same can be said about going to one of the numerous 'NCAA assigner' camps When said assigners know full and well that 75% of the particiaptes well never sniff the close shop.
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