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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 08:50am
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even at my lowly level, no official I know would show up at a non-ASA event wearing ASA apparel.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 09:31am
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I see that all the time.

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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
even at my lowly level, no official I know would show up at a non-ASA event wearing ASA apparel.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 09:55am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Cannot answer for anyone else, but I would assume he meant that a tournament specific to sell international softball in the United States needs to be seen as an international game played under international rules and officiated by international umpires. It also offers the appearance, even though there is none in the case, of non-partisan officials indifferent to the countries represented.
I agree with you on that standpoint. outathm's statement seemed more generic when I read it, and not specific to this tournament.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 11:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
ASA is the host of the WCOS. Since the onset, they have been emphasizing that this is INTERNATIONAL softball played under ISF rules.

Yet, there are umpires wearing ASA uniforms and equipment. If they cannot afford to properly equip the game officials, they shouldn't be running the tournament.

And I understand these are not all ASA-trained umpires, but some of the mechanics I've seen tonight are questionable.

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Most of the general public doesn't give a hoot about what logo is on the umpire's hat.

Perhaps ASA is doing this intentionally to put their brand out there?

ISF is the one dropping the ball on this, it seems to me. If the tournament is sanctioned by ISF, it is their place to state requirements to the host, such as umpire uniforms.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Most of the general public doesn't give a hoot about what logo is on the umpire's hat.

Perhaps ASA is doing this intentionally to put their brand out there?

ISF is the one dropping the ball on this, it seems to me. If the tournament is sanctioned by ISF, it is their place to state requirements to the host, such as umpire uniforms.
No, ASA is the host, it is their responsibility. Just like those who do college and wear a conference hat. The conference school is the host, but the game is sanctioned and played under NCAA rules.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 01:40pm
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Who is the host of the NCAA Division I Softball Championships? ASA? It is at their (ASA's) stadium, just like the World Cup. I seriously doubt ASA could get away with having the umpires wear ASA uniforms in the WCWS.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 03:01pm
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ASA has nothing (and I mean nothing) to do with the CWS other than the NCAA leases the stadium from ASA. Ask someone from the National office next time if they could even get you 'comp' tickets or some such to a game.

World Cup is a much different story though. That Tournament is run by ISF in conjunction with ASA.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Cannot answer for anyone else, but I would assume he meant that a tournament specific to sell international softball in the United States needs to be seen as an international game played under international rules and officiated by international umpires. It also offers the appearance, even though there is none in the case, of non-partisan officials indifferent to the countries represented.
I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 03:39pm
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Originally Posted by outathm View Post
I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.
Not sure what tournament you saw, but I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you did not see ASA anything at the Premier. SoCal ASA even had people there watching and taking pictures of who was there; there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA.

I am sure you saw it somewhere, but it wasn't there.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 03:59pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
...there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA...
During the political dust-up that has gone on here the last several years between the state ASA commissioner and those opposed to him, there was "policing" of (or an attempt to police) umpires wearing ASA-logoed gear at the "opponents" tournaments by the state ASA commissioner's office. There were no threats of trademark lawsuits (AFAIK), but there were letters sent to umpires and such.

I never understood the rationale behind this, however.

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 05:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Who is the host of the NCAA Division I Softball Championships? ASA? It is at their (ASA's) stadium, just like the World Cup. I seriously doubt ASA could get away with having the umpires wear ASA uniforms in the WCWS.
That is my point. NCAA is the host and sponsor. You are not going to see any umpires in different uniforms no matter where they umpired to get to that point.

If you notice during the NCAA Softball Championships, there are NCAA decals everywhere. Many are covering the ASA. ASA is not allowed to promote themselves unless they pay like any other sponsor. I believe the only place you will see "ASA" during those games is on the scoreboard as part of the stadium's name.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 05:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
During the political dust-up that has gone on here the last several years between the state ASA commissioner and those opposed to him, there was "policing" of (or an attempt to police) umpires wearing ASA-logoed gear at the "opponents" tournaments by the state ASA commissioner's office. There were no threats of trademark lawsuits (AFAIK), but there were letters sent to umpires and such.

I never understood the rationale behind this, however.

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?
Why would a Ford commercial run footage showing a Chevy win a race at Daytona? Do you think Anheuser-Busch wouldn't take action if Sam Adams ran a spot showing a Clydesdale-drawn wagon loaded with Sam Adam's product entering Fenway Park?

Though lawsuits should be the last resort, if you are working ABC you should wear ABC's uniform. If XYZ did not want their brand associated with a competitor, they have every right to demand their trademarked logo is not included in any events other than those in which they choose to do so.

I didn't have a problem telling umpires working a PONY tournament to find another hat, shirt or ball bag that did not have ASA on it. I would not do it publicly or at the event I was observing, but afterwards at a local meeting or if I saw them.

It is a reasonable demand of any organization that values their brand.
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:39pm.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 05:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post

Getting your brand out there is fundamental to promotion. Why would the ASA itself be opposed to having the competition have to visibly use ASA umpires? It seems to me it would indicate the opponent organization is lacking to the point they have to look to the ASA to provide officials. Why is this bad for ASA?
You ever umpire with someone you were almost embarrassed they were wearing the same uniform?

Ever have a discussion with a coach who insisted the ASA rule was this or that because the umpire had an ASA on his hat or shirt when in fact it was another organization, but YOU are the one who is wrong?

Could go on all night, but I don't think you would bother reading
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 15, 2013, 10:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Not sure what tournament you saw, but I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you did not see ASA anything at the Premier. SoCal ASA even had people there watching and taking pictures of who was there; there would have been an instant lawsuit for trademark infringement if PGF used anything ASA.

I am sure you saw it somewhere, but it wasn't there.
I do not have a copy of the tape, but if you can find a cop of the 2012 or 2013 games that were aired on CBS sports, the umpires were wearing ASA gear. I do not care wither way, except that I am also one that will not allow an umpire to wear another organizations gear at a competing tournament.

In reality, the STRONG majority of umpires in the US were either trained by ASA, or trained by someone who was trained by ASA. That is just the way it is. However, if it is not an ASA sanctioned event, ASA gear needs to stay in the car or at home.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 16, 2013, 01:53am
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Premier uses modified HS ruleset.

You are likely mistaking it for TCS (triple crown) that does use ASA ruleset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outathm View Post
I did mean to say that ISF dropped the ball. I have no issue with ASA uniforms being worn, but it should be an ASA tournament to do so. I seem to remember last year tuning in to the "Premiere Girls Championship' games being televised on one of the 'other' sports only channels and seeing the umpires all wearing ASA gear, to include the ball bags on the plate umpire.

Now admittedly, I notice umpires more than the casual viewer, but the 'mom or dad' who was tuning in late would think this was an ASA tournament. The same is true of this tournament, with ASA being worn by the umpires. The casual observer would not have known this was being played under international rules, they would only see another 'brand' prominently displayed.
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