Adult-Children Wreck Ball
 

ASA - Home team at bat down by 4 runs with 2 outs and 30 seconds to go on clock. Their current batter chooses to strike out intentionally so they get an extra inning by beating the clock. They're within the rules. Innings over and I call "one more inning". Of course visitors have a hissy and a squalling big time about chickens__t play and no ones does that stuff ever. It escalates when teams are changing positions and I've got 14 to 16 guys on field all barking at each other. Visiting pitcher (biggest hissyfitter) who was almost in dugout comes back on field, throws is helmet and confronts the opposing shortstop cuz he's barking back. He shoves shortstop. Now everyone is really animated and yelling. I want no part of another inning of this crap and simply say...."Game's over". Both teams behaving badly was my thought.

I'm a one man crew, 70 years old and not about to get into a 14-16 man hassle on the field and I know it ain't gonna subside if I toss anyone and play on. It's just going to get worse.

Hindsight, I could have and probably should have tossed the pitcher guilty of shoving but at that point it was a real "bruhaha" and I didn't want to work the extra inning of what I perceived was going to be nonsense and potentially more of the same barking.

I don't know if I'm looking for validation but what would you guys have done given working single man and a real scary situation about to happen?:(:mad:

Walked away....wrote a report and let the league handle it.

JMHO.

Joel

+1

+2

Probably the smartest option available. Hope the league/organization has a strong "hammer" to deal with such behavior. It's things like that that had me leave my "adult" softball career.

First off is to remember adult rec is wreck. ASA = babysitting. If you accept the game, you will be babysitting. Accept that fact, or don't accept the game.

Second, you must remember the art of war, when the concubines were told to line up and they giggled, two were beheaded right there, and asked again to line up, and they all did immediately.

The proper thing is to eject any player that touches another player first. Then any player that belongs in the dugout not in the dugout gets ejected. Then get names and details of all those ejected before continuing. If there is not enuff players after your ejection, you have your forfeit.

It prolly sounds like you would have had a double forfeit anyways, you just took a short cut which may or may not come back on you.

The league will handle it, they gotta. You are not supposed to babysit them, but with ASA, there's some expectation. You just have to remember to take down names and details in the future to cover yourself.

That is one of the dumbest posts I've seen recently. WTF does this have to do with ASA?

READ, OP first words are ASA

I believe his point is that this is a rec league (i.e. city/town) issue, and that ASA has nothing to do with any of it. ASA doesn't expect anyone to "babysit." Rec league directors may, but ASA doesn't. ASA simply codifies the sport, and then for "championship play" only (technically). They have nothing to do with how local leagues are run, nor, I suspect, do they want to.

How would I have handled this? Likely the same as you did. I would be keeping track of which players were doing what during the incident and written a full and complete report with as much detail as possible about the incident. In that report I am indicating that had the game not been ended player X (pitcher would have been out for throwing his helmet and aggressive contact to an opponent). I likely also would have included that the SS would also have been ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct as well because of his barking at the opposing pitcher. I would not each player who was involved. The reason is simple.

Why do that? The league could rule a couple different ways on this. They could rule both teams conduct in violation of league policies and issue a double forfeit of the game because it was ended by an umpire. They could rule the game over and the score as official at that point, of they could (if they have no support for the umpires, rule the game be continued). If they rule the game to be continued, you have an argument that these players should be considered ejected and would have been had the conduct not prevented them from being notified of the ejection. In a situation like this I am getting away from the action ASAP and watching from a distance. If the league decides to continue the game, those players would be barred from continuing in the game due to being ejected.

I rarely have had fights in contests I worked. I had a flag football game while in college that a fight broke out in. Of a 5 man crew, 4 officials jumped into the pile to break it up. I stayed back, watched everything happen, and wrote down names and numbers of those involved in the action. I ended up needing that information as a school police officer was watching the game and actually arrested a couple people. I ended up needing to provide a report for the school judicial committee when he was brought up on school charges.

The local league is using ASA rules, and the teams and league may even be ASA sanctioned under the state or metro ASA commissioner.

However, all of the kinds of issues described by the OP are due to the local teams and local leagues. ASA, as an organization, has nothing to do with how local rec leagues are run.

How convenient, but I don't buy it. Its either ASA sanctioned or its not, and you talking out of both sides of your mouth on behalf of the OP as to which is not helping.

ASA is a ruleset, but umpires are required to be ASA registered, wear official gear ASA uniforms, umpires, teams, and leagues are required to register and buy ASA Bollinger insurance, bat checks must have ASA stamps and not on the banned bat list. To distance from the ASA is a cop out.

the ASA has become a rules committee, liability police, and umpire apparel and gear hawker. All the talented SP players are off utripping and all the good FP teams are off playing showcases and premier. All the upper level umpires have traded in their ASA gear for better pay, better games, and less politics and no more "cry baby ball" elsewhere.

The ASA is where amateurs start playing and umpiring, and remain when there is no place to advance, and the talking heads are usually the later. If an umpire wants to excel at routine professional babysitting, the ASA is the place to be.

Do yourself and the OP a favor, do a search here or on any forum. Nearly all these SP adult baby behavior posts are ASA games, plain and simple. If you want to help the ASA and the OP, man up and answer his question directly, not hide to comment on mine. OP is wearing ASA blue, is 70yo calling single man, and came here for help, because quite honestly, he probably ain't getting it where he calls his own ASA assoc home.

Dude get a clue about local leagues. Leagues are not run by A.S.A. Leagues are run by local associations and or parks, using A.S.A. rules.

A.S.A. only handles Championship Play Tournaments District All Stars Championships (B teams) through Nationals and Travel teams (A / Gold) Starting at the State level through Nationals. A.S.A. also is in charge of Team U.S.A. and American I.S.F.

Here in So Cal most Adult leagues are governed by S.C.M.A.F. rules

Actually, ASA is a member of ISF as the NGB of softball.

Thanks for the proper status

Around these parts, local league play has been USSSA for two decades now. As many know, I gave up calling SP a few years back because I basically had to choose between SP and FP strictly from a time perspective. The choice for me was easy. I had no desire to work AA softball where they whined constantly, where beer was allowed in the dugout (private park) and where by the third game of the evening you had to have your ejection signal working overtime because the drunks suddenly became supermen in their eyes. Are you going to hold USSSA responsible for this???

Nah, I'm not blaming the ASA for adult childish behavior. That is inherently built into the the game and modern society. But utrip is openly and blatantly pro SP player. You seldom hear of a any utrip guys coming to umpire forums lamenting about cry babies and ejections, because the umpires are the players. I haven't been over to softballfans for sometime, they might lament a bit there, but my guess is nowhere as much as ASA umps here.

But in city rec leagues for SP, if it is still ASA unformed umpires, the only relationship ASA wants is the fees it charges to umpires, players and league to register and insure, and bat checks for liability. Its only obligation to the umpire is covering injury and assault. Most localities wised up and either went utrip or plain blue and self insurance or W2 status. Utrip was a solution to the problem, not the problem. Utrip was an alternative and a way out of ASA auspices which provided basically nothing but rules for mandatory tribute.

If you are an ASA umpire in a local rec league wearing ASA, good luck, because you are on your own. And what surprises me is that these umpires seek forums to find support, and still don't get any straight answers from many of the staunch ASA members here. Go figure.

But USSSA required my money ($10.00 more per year) as "tribute," required that I have both the red shirts and the navy shirts (plus they have many other colors), that I wore their uniform, (black AND grey pants as well), and that I was insured through them. Or at least the affiliation for the local league required that. Not sure that I am getting this difference you are speaking of.....seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle if you ask me.

I don't have a problem with your problem, because that is your problem.

The OP has a problem, he's ASA, and he is babysitting while wearing ASA blue, not USSSA red. Like you, I don't call slowpitch, neither ASA nor utrip. What I am telling him is that the ASA is his problem, he is on his own. If that bothers you, you might be part of the problem unless you can enlighten and convince him otherwise. Good luck expounding the virtues.

The ASA uniform an empty and spineless brand. That's something the OP has to come to terms, and denying it or changing the subject might help you, but not him. What is obvious is that he didn't come posting to get sugar coated by talking heads.

Over the last 15 years I've paid tribute to many overlords (NSA, ASA, USSSA, Fed, both state and national, and a variety of locals. The letters that they went by meant nothing. It was the people who ran the organization that dictated whether I was supported or not. In my little piece of the world ASA isn't very strong but drive 100 miles south and it's the go to organization. It's people, not letters, that make the difference.

Well, you don't hold back, you go all out and give us 100% of your ignorance. Granted, you are permitted your opinion. It is ill-informed opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.

Wow. I was going to try to be polite... but I will fail. You're an idiot.

ALL adult softball is like this. ASA sanctioned... USSSA sanctioned... Dixie sanctioned... it doesn't matter. Unless the LOCAL LEAGUE has a firm handle on this nonsense (and it rarely does), this is completely typical of adult slow pitch softball. Calling this an ASA problem is simply asinine.

+1

I agree, its the people.

The ASA heads have dropped the ball in so many ways, its amazing they can't seem to come to terms to change. No other organization has squandered their goodwill and stronghold more than the ASA. The proof is all the other organizations that have risen where the ASA failed to meet expectations.

ASA registration may still be a requirement to stay relevant in softball, but that day seems to be coming to an end. Most of the partners I crew with have abandoned their ASA gear and affiliation in distain.

I believe anything I would have to say in response to this has already been said by several others, so I won't be redundant. :rolleyes:

Wow, didn't think this would generate a "word war" between ASA and other assocations. It really has nothing to do with any association. It's as a poster said, it's Rec ball run by City rec department that chooses to us ASA rules and their base and adds their own rules as the managers agree to.

I got my answer and I really appreciate it. I think I did correct and let the city take care of the problem.

It really isn't ASA vs the world. All softball umpires owe our roots to ASA. But that is where most of the commonality ends. There are huge divides and differences between the old and the new, blue and red, the good and the bad, even men and women. Those feuds are inherent and ongoing, only the players have changed. Some welcome the changes, and others fight it bitterly.

The real question is, did your own peers, other ASA umpires back you or leave you to fend yourself? If so, why consult total strangers on a forum for validation? Some posters will never see past their keystrokes to ask that in sympathy. But answer that for yourself, and you will know if the ASA stands with you or not when you need them the most.

Your instinct was correct. If support from your peers was absent or distant that led you to question yourself, leave them. Run, don't walk, and go anywhere but stay.

The rest was just petty flame war BS.

I'd like to apologize for allowing my personal self to override my mod self when calling out the previous poster as an idiot. I disagree with his singling out any particular entity as the problem with adult softball - but the name calling was beneath me.

MD,
Welcome to my level. I regularly remove one foot from my mouth and insert the other.

Serving in multiple affiliations is really no big deal IMO, I work Baseball, Fastpitch, and SP.

Sure I have a rainbow of shirt colors on the USSSA side but that adds many options for me and my partner(s) in baseball and fastpitch that I welcome (Navy, Red, Black, Powder, Pink, Camo, Cream, and White). The SP side goes with Red or Black usually.

I can work one USSSA tournament and make my $400 and I cover the cost of all of my uniform needs for the entire season(s)...work a 2nd tourney and I have enough for all my gear as well. The rest of the season is gravy :).

ASA is shrinking here in Michigan while USSSA is booming. However, it has been and will always be "the people" that make the organizations (leagues or tournaments) worthy of my services. I work very hard to maintain my credentials, training, and uniforms which allows me the ability to pick and choose who I work for and when I work as there is plenty of opportunity to do so, you just have to be true to yourself and diligent in your quest to work with those "people" that are deserving of you.