This exactly.

Seems to me there was much less of any type of debate before people started making mandate decisions FOR the umpire instead of letting the umpire make the decision.

Okay. By phrasing it in the form of a question, it seemed to open the conversation up to incorrect interpretations for PONY, rather than just create general discussion. That's what my concern was. And I think the proof is in the pudding.

I don't do PONY, so I have no idea what that rule intends. But, I do think that some people are mixing apples and oranges on this topic.

It seems to me the "entirely within the batter's box" is intended to eliminate free bases for batters toeing the line and hanging over the river and the plate, when the rationale has always been described that pitchers shouldn't be throwing the ball in the batter's box, and batters shouldn't be required to be distracted from their purpose, to hit good pitches.

Others seem to be extrapolating this to include slappers out the front of the box. And, admittedly, the language doesn't really differentiate, except that it doesn't address the batter, it addresses the ball. But, if slaphitting IS an acceptable and recognized way of hitting, AND, knowing slappers are often out front of the box (even if the foot IS still in the air); so, I ask, is it then ok that pitchers are missing the zone and throwing the ball in an area that WOULD result in being in the batter's box, why do we not want to use the same decision process of "is the ball where the pitcher should be throwing it (plate and rivers)", or "is the ball where (or headed to where) the batter is supposed to be"??

If NO RULE in these rulesets (not ASA, obviously) requires batters to show an attempt to avoid ANY pitch, no matter where it is, then where is this requirement coming from. Note that the rules don't address attempting to avoid in any other location, they only address NO NEED to attempt to avoid if the BALL is completely in the batter's box. I see no rule (aside from NCAA) that addresses where the batter is, just the ball.

And that, again, leads back to the mindset of where the pitcher is supposed to be throwing the ball, NOT any legislation on where the batter is.

Two lessons here:

First, watch the umpire and see where he is looking on the foul pop-up. I'm usually quite critical of TV/movie umpires because they are absolutely terrible with mechanics. This "umpire" watches Costner the entire trip and lets the catcher take him to the play.

Second, it is quite obvious, box or not, no one is safe. The batter was in the box,


But where was the bull?