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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:47am
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Not respecting and adhering to the mechanics prescribed by the 'alphabet' one is working. Some of the worst partners one can ever have.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan View Post
Not respecting and adhering to the mechanics prescribed by the 'alphabet' one is working. Some of the worst partners one can ever have.
Phil, you are absolutely correct and it is a disservice to your (generic, not Phil) partner to do that. Had an umpire working a HS game this year tell his partner (2nd year) that he was going to use NCAA mechanics so working HS doesn't affect his NCAA game.

His partner had no idea what that meant as far as it concerned responsibilities or coverage and was on edge the entire game trying to figure out what HE was supposed to do that wouldn't screw up his partner.
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:56pm. Reason: Clarification
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
ASA 10-1
NFHS 10-2-3g
NCAA 15.2

Seriously, there's no way in hell I'm allowing R1 to score AFTER R2 has touched the plate. I fully accept the definition of passing a runner, but that should not apply when it comes to touching home plate.

Home plate is treated differently with respect to runners touching it than other bases. If R1 passes but fails to touch any other base, and then R2 touches it, R1 still has the opportunity to correct the miss by having R2 reverse track (and touch again) that base, and then R1 touches it. The same is not true at home plate.

You can't have it both ways here. Either you recognize that in this unusual circumstance R2 passed R1, so that R2 is out, or R2 didn't pass R1, which means R1 is still forced at home and is out.
I am going with Manny.....he is a Colonel....and out ranked anyone in my family. And he can rain down artillery anywhere he wants.

Plus, I agree with him. d;-)

Joel
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremeump View Post
Authoritative Opinion by Jay Miner for 2013 NYSSO Rules (Not an Official Interpretation) 06-14-13.

1. R2 from second base is not out for passing R1 from third base because R2 did not completely pass R1 (R/S #39). Therefore, R2s run scores.

2. Because R2 from second legally scored, R2 is no longer a runner, and R1 from third must be tagged to be retired. Because R1 was not tagged and did touch the plate R1s run also counts. R1 was not forced to home because R1 could theoretically return to third with no runner forcing R1 home.

3. The Home Team Wins 2-1. (Have the car running and facing out in the parking lot)

Note: This play requires an official interpretation and/or a casebook play.



Opinions may be sent to: [email protected]
I sent him mine......just so you would not call me a chicken.

I have less experience (only 38 years umpiring) than many here.

Joel
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:25pm
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Manny, I'm not saying you're wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
ASA 10-1
NFHS 10-2-3g
NCAA 15.2

Seriously, there's no way in hell I'm allowing R1 to score AFTER R2 has touched the plate. I fully accept the definition of passing a runner, but that should not apply when it comes to touching home plate.

Home plate is treated differently with respect to runners touching it than other bases. If R1 passes but fails to touch any other base, and then R2 touches it, R1 still has the opportunity to correct the miss by having R2 reverse track (and touch again) that base, and then R1 touches it. The same is not true at home plate.

You can't have it both ways here. Either you recognize that in this unusual circumstance R2 passed R1, so that R2 is out, or R2 didn't pass R1, which means R1 is still forced at home and is out.
But, how do you handle the defensive coaches protest?
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:26pm
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By making him show me that the run scores.

Very simple actually.

Joel
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:46pm
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And when he asks you why the run doesn't score...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue View Post
By making him show me that the run scores.

Very simple actually.

Joel
and you respond that the second runner passed the first runner and therefore you're not going to allow the run and he then quotes you the rule regarding a runner passing another runner and backs you into a corner how do you deal with that? Again, I'm not saying I'm disagreeing but I'd like to know how to handle this?
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto View Post
and you respond that the second runner passed the first runner and therefore you're not going to allow the run and he then quotes you the rule regarding a runner passing another runner and backs you into a corner how do you deal with that? Again, I'm not saying I'm disagreeing but I'd like to know how to handle this?
I would show him how "runs are scored".......

Have him prove me wrong.

Don't get me wrong.....I would allow the protest.....but I would still win it.

Joel
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:15pm
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xtremeump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Wow! That was quick!

I've only been active again on this board for a few days or so after not posting here for many months, and I've already added to my ignore list!
Do not worry big guy I am done here, I really thought this could be productive, but this is my third time and I am disappointed.

Last edited by xtremeump; Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 06:10am.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 06:11am
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xtremeump

Historical Notes: After thirty years of Major League action, many unusual incidents had occurred along the basepaths. Among the most unusual was a play in which a baserunner passed a teammate who was running the bases ahead of him. As a result, in 1904, a rule was adopted which stated that a baserunner shall be declared "...out if he touch home base before a baserunner preceding him in the batting order...."
The rule was expanded in 1907 to include a baserunner who passed a preceding runner in a rundown.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 07:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue View Post
I sent him mine......just so you would not call me a chicken.
Or even worse.........
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 10:45am
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xtremeump

Irish, I realy respect you and your comments, but when you really think about it CLONES are the enemy of realistic Officiating. Being a State Interpreter you have seen them. I know that there are some very smart Umpires on here, and I have learned from them. But some of the comments are CLONE coments...
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremeump View Post
Irish, I realy respect you and your comments, but when you really think about it CLONES are the enemy of realistic Officiating. Being a State Interpreter you have seen them. I know that there are some very smart Umpires on here, and I have learned from them. But some of the comments are CLONE coments...
I have really thought about it, and I've somehow managed to not come to that conclusion. Umpires running around inventing mechanics that are not recognized by their partners, or being where they should not be - those are the "enemy of realistic umpiring" if there is such a thing.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremeump View Post
Simply answer the OP question ??? That play will never happen, but if we all can learn something thats a good thing. Cecilone and Irish have a question not a comment on how the CLONES do things, first time for everything. Its ok that you guys are afraid of Jay, he likes it that way.
That play almost did happen in my fathers slow pitch league many years ago. There were bases loaded, 2 outs, last inning. I don't recall the score. The runner at third is walking home, while the runners on second and first are sprinting trying to score. By the time the runner from 3rd gets near the plate the runner on second is going into a slide and the runner from 1st is right behind him.

The throw also came in at about the same time. The R1 (3b) touched the plate, R2 slide in under the tag, and R3 was nailed at the plate for the third out.

The only reason I know this is it was part of a discussion on the way to MIS for the NASCAR race Sunday. One of the players involved is still an idiot working at the same place and they were talking stories of his stupidity (he was the runner on 3rd).

From what I recall, and they recall, had the catcher been touching the plate when the ball was caught, R1 would have been out as a force, from a ball that was a double off the bat.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2013, 08:04pm
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xtremeump

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I have really thought about it, and I've somehow managed to not come to that conclusion. Umpires running around inventing mechanics that are not recognized by their partners, or being where they should not be - those are the "enemy of realistic umpiring" if there is such a thing.
Please do not think that I am refering to most of you guys. It is a slang word that I picked up for Umpires that will not change for the good of the game. Umpires that were never trained by a school or clinic. But now they are a 30 year Umpire, & I after goine to real training and schools try to show them the new way of officiating. They do not listen, they are CLONES, they will not change at all, and they will not attened any clinics. I know that we feal diferent about a few things but I can get past that. We are in the position that we are in because we voluntered at one point in our life. Now it is our lifestyle, & i would not change a thing. Quality of LIFE is more important than anything. Sorry for the rant.
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